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Starter Rebuild

Charging System, Wiring, Lighting
NBD925
honda305.com Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Missoula, Montana

Starter Rebuild

Post by NBD925 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:18 pm

My starter was pulled off a 1963 Dream (White) # CA77E-311816. It sat most of its life out doors before I rescued it and brought it home. The starter looked to be in fair condition and I almost bench tested it. Glad I didn't!

Remember when disassembling the starter that the field is connected to the brushes. So don't undo the bolts on the rear case cap and just pull. You need to disconnect the field from the brush first (remove small philips screw holding brush lead) before removing the rear case cap.

Image
P1130004 by adam.corts, on Flickr

Image
P1130005 by adam.corts, on Flickr

It was packed with dirt and rust. One of the starter brush holders was loose. The rivet holding it down had rusted away. A brush spring was also corroded enough to make it unserviceable and the Field wire (Thick copper wire soldered to the main positive input post) was broken and disconnected from the main post.

Image
P1130006 by adam.corts, on Flickr

The field itself was very packed and rusted as well.

Image
P1130016 by adam.corts, on Flickr

Gears looked good but man the grease was black as coal and thick.

Image
P1130008 by adam.corts, on Flickr

I took to disassembling all the parts and cleaning them thoroughly. It took some time but things were looking up and up. To clean the main case properly, I removed the field. I used an impact screw driver with proper sized blade to remove the 4 screws holding each of the iron field plates to the starter case. Then once the main starter case was clean inside and out, I cleaned the fields.

I removed the main post and re-soldered the field wire to the main post. Then put it back together making sure to get the insulator back on the post. The copper wire is thick and difficult to bend to get the post into position but it can be done just take your time. It is important to check this field connection and the connection made near the brushes, as they are vital to the success of this rebuild.

I got a new rivet for the brush holder. It was a straight rivet not a pop rivet. Drilled out the old one and installed the new rivet. It looked slightly different but nothing supper noticeable. It worked out great. Got new starter brushes and springs and installed them. The armature was starting to lose its protective wire coating so I masked off the armature leaving only the wires exposed. I took the starter to an Auto Electric shop in town here in Missoula, Montana and they sprayed it for free with a coating to protect the wires. I'll find out what it was they sprayed and I'll edit it into the post. I got some Hi-temp Disc Brake / Wheel Bearing Grease (by Master Pro) and coated the planetary gears and ring system.

Image
P1150020 by adam.corts, on Flickr

I then assembled the starter (Minus the innards) and masked it off and primed it.
Here is a picture of the Armature wires coated and the starter case primed with Duplicolor ceramic primer.

Image
P1280046 by adam.corts, on Flickr

Off to the paint booth. DIY of course!

Image
DSCN0043 by adam.corts, on Flickr

The paint I have been using is Honda Power Equipment, Cloud Silver Paint. I just ordered some more so it's still available. I have done my entire engine in this paint. It seems to be a great match to original Honda Cloud Silver. But it does not hold up to carb cleaner. Good for fuel though, I believe.

Image
DSCN0055 by adam.corts, on Flickr

After paint I took the starter case apart again. I have set everything out in the order I believe it goes back together. Comments welcome. One mistake noted in the picture is the thin o-ring gasket between the planetary gear ring housing and the field housing. That is misplaced and goes between the planetary gear housing and the planetary ring housing.

Image
DSCN0054 by adam.corts, on Flickr

The starter can be reassembled using a light coat of Lithium Grease on the shims and the bearing journals of the armature, front and rear. Then pack the planetary gear system with High temp wheel bearing grease, more is better here. This is the gears only source of lube. All the grease should be contained in this closed system by the seals.

Image
DSCN0077 by adam.corts, on Flickr



Thanks and I hope this helps people concur their electric starters.




Thanks to 48lesco for answering my questions:


These are the questions I asked to complete this tutorial add more if you like: There are four thin metal round shims in the front of the armature, three thin and one a little thicker. Also two smaller ones in the back of the armature. What is the order of these shims? (Thick ring first then thin, thin, thin????? toward the planetary gears?????) What is the Idea behind these? Do they need lube? Do you lube the armature shaft near the brushes at all? How much is too much grease in the planetary gear system?
Last edited by NBD925 on Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

48lesco
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Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:45 pm
Location: Olmsted Twp, Ohio

Post by 48lesco » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:19 am

Nice job! The order of the shims on the armature doesn't really matter. They are to control end play which can be around .010". I'd put a light coating of lithium grease on those as well as the armature bearing journals. As far as the planetary gears go, you can't get too much grease in there. Load it up with regular automotive grease. Also, don't forget the little pin that secures the ring gear to the casing (standard 2x16mm). It goes in the little holes on both halves and through the slot on the outer edge of the gear to help keep it from rotating. If the holes are worn, you can drill new ones, the orientation of the gear doesn't matter. Good luck!
-48

NBD925
honda305.com Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Missoula, Montana

Post by NBD925 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:04 pm

Wow . . . all my questions answered there, thanks. Now that I think about it, the idea of those shims makes more sense. I think I'll put this starter back together today with the missing pieces of advise you gave.

NBD925
honda305.com Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Missoula, Montana

Post by NBD925 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:59 pm

Here are some more restoration questions:

1. What is the material best used to replicate the brown paper in the picture? It was glued to the inside of the band covering the brushes. Was this a cardboard/wax paper or what?

2. Is the formed O-ring that is pictured just that, and O-ring? Any good idea on size? I didn't want to stretch mine in fear of breaking it.

Image
DSCN0078 by adam.corts, on Flickr

Thanks everyone!

LOUD MOUSE
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Posts: 7817
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:23 am
Location: KERRVILLE, TEXAS

Post by LOUD MOUSE » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:57 pm

Reuse the paper and seal. .......lm

NBD925 wrote:Here are some more restoration questions:

1. What is the material best used to replicate the brown paper in the picture? It was glued to the inside of the band covering the brushes. Was this a cardboard/wax paper or what?

2. Is the formed O-ring that is pictured just that, and O-ring? Any good idea on size? I didn't want to stretch mine in fear of breaking it.

Image
DSCN0078 by adam.corts, on Flickr

Thanks everyone!

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G-Man
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Post by G-Man » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:59 am

Adam

Excellent piece of work! Have you done any electrical / functional tests on the starter? The Honda manual details some tests for the commutator etc. I haven't tackled my starter motors yet but your post will be a great help when I do.

Thanks!

G
'60 C77 '60 C72 '62 C72 Dream '63 CL72
'61 CB72 '64 CB77 '65 CB160
'66 Matchless 350 '67 CL77
'67 S90 '77 CB400F

iogazer
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Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:49 pm
Location: US

Starter rebuild

Post by iogazer » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:53 pm

Extremely excellent post, thanks

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