CL crankshaft with an electric starter

[teazer]

LM is correct that oil is fed under low pressure but reasonable volume to through the oil filter to the center of the crankcase (later 9 hole models) where it travels across the front of the barrels to teh two outer front studs. It goes from there up to the rockerbox and through the rocker arms to oil the top end.

It also feeds from that center passage to the two center main bearings. Around the outer edge of the mains are oil slingers which use centrifugal force to send the oil into the con rod big end bearings.

There is one more oil feed that has not been mentioned so far, and that's a small drilling in the area of the right main bearing just behind the stud.

I had really given it much thought, but it seem that it allows a calibrated feed to the right side main bearing. The outside of that bearing is ope to the back of the starter sprocket and surplus oil goes through the main bearing into the sprocket bush and back through the drilled hole through the hollow crank to the crankcase. The hole is open at the rod end of the shaft.

That hole in the crank is not a feed. it's a return.

A Cl crank has an oil seal on that side with much smaller ID and no oil hole. Use a CB starter clutch and oil seal and drill the crank (it's fairly soft there).

[rustywrench]

Wish I had a CB crankshaft I could cut a section through.




I have one you are welcome to for the cost of shipping. It has a chopped off rod. Someones desperate attempt at a stuck piston I suspect. You may even be able to change out the rods if your cl rods will fit. That is if you would care to get that involved with a crank dis-assembly. Anyway,it's yours if you want it. RW

[jensen]

Hi,

Checked a NOS right inner crank half and LM is right, there is no hole in the big end pin where it meets the right crank weight. Pictures included (this is a CB72 part). However, the oil could go via the big end bearing itself, but since I don't have a NOS outer right crank weight in the neighborhood of my computer I'm not able to check. Anyone ?

Jensen

[ricksd]

This problem seems to be solved after teazer said:
"That hole in the crank is not a feed. it's a return. "
I got locked in thinking the radial hole in the crankshaft end was supplying oil to the sprocket, and didn't see what should have been obvious, that oil supplied to the roller bearing could slide right onto the sprocket- the crankcase oil seal rides on the inner extended nose of the sprocket and there's another seal in the sprocket outer nose to keep oil off of the clutch/sprocket grabbing surface- very nice.
The CL crankshaft seal probably rides on the 20mm crankshaft surface, not the CA/CB sprocket nose.
My worry about enough oil finding it's way into that little hole disappears when seen as a drain and not a supply.
Even better, another test swipe with a file leads me to think I was wrong about how hard the crankshaft was- it now appears to almost dead soft, so drilling won't be a problem. As long as the axial hole through the crankshaft is at least as big as the hole beneath the sprocket bearing everything should be OK.
I'll probably get a bolt the same pitch as the rotor bolt, borrow time on a lathe to drill a hole through it to act as a guide for the drill bit when I drill the crank- a small and long drill bit will want to wander and whip around, but I've done it before.
Not sure if it will be necessary to plug the hole at the alternator end of the shaft- a little thread sealer will probably do.
Thanks to all for the help. I've attached pictures for anyone who doesn't have parts to look at. I think this is the oil passage in the case teaser was referring to- also the bearing carrier with a mating hole in it and a picture of the extended nose on the starter sprocket with the seal.

Now I remember reading thet Honda replaced the roller bearing with a ball bearing- was there a hole in the ball bearing outer race to use this oil passage?
Don't be shy to tell me if I still don't have this right.

Rick

[G-Man]

That's a good piece of collective detective work. I'm going to look through all of the parts I have and verify the conclusions but they look sensible from here.

G

[LOUD MOUSE]

"That hole in the crank is not a feed. it's a return. "

??????????????????????. ..................lm

This problem seems to be solved after teazer said:
"That hole in the crank is not a feed. it's a return. "
I got locked in thinking the radial hole in the crankshaft end was supplying oil to the sprocket, and didn't see what should have been obvious, that oil supplied to the roller bearing could slide right onto the sprocket- the crankcase oil seal rides on the inner extended nose of the sprocket and there's another seal in the sprocket outer nose to keep oil off of the clutch/sprocket grabbing surface- very nice.
The CL crankshaft seal probably rides on the 20mm crankshaft surface, not the CA/CB sprocket nose.
My worry about enough oil finding it's way into that little hole disappears when seen as a drain and not a supply.
Even better, another test swipe with a file leads me to think I was wrong about how hard the crankshaft was- it now appears to almost dead soft, so drilling won't be a problem. As long as the axial hole through the crankshaft is at least as big as the hole beneath the sprocket bearing everything should be OK.
I'll probably get a bolt the same pitch as the rotor bolt, borrow time on a lathe to drill a hole through it to act as a guide for the drill bit when I drill the crank- a small and long drill bit will want to wander and whip around, but I've done it before.
Not sure if it will be necessary to plug the hole at the alternator end of the shaft- a little thread sealer will probably do.
Thanks to all for the help. I've attached pictures for anyone who doesn't have parts to look at. I think this is the oil passage in the case teaser was referring to- also the bearing carrier with a mating hole in it and a picture of the extended nose on the starter sprocket with the seal.

Now I remember reading thet Honda replaced the roller bearing with a ball bearing- was there a hole in the ball bearing outer race to use this oil passage?
Don't be shy to tell me if I still don't have this right.

Rick

[LOUD MOUSE]

<<<<<<<<<<<<Now I remember reading thet Honda replaced the roller bearing with a ball bearing- was there a hole in the ball bearing outer race to use this oil passage?>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Ball Bearing replacement for the Roller Bearing on the right side (91002-259-020) DOES NOT HAVE THE OIL HOLE the Roller Bearing does.
As it is an OPEN bearing I suppose it doesn't need it as plenty of oil will splash into it. ............lm.

This problem seems to be solved after teazer said:
"That hole in the crank is not a feed. it's a return. "
I got locked in thinking the radial hole in the crankshaft end was supplying oil to the sprocket, and didn't see what should have been obvious, that oil supplied to the roller bearing could slide right onto the sprocket- the crankcase oil seal rides on the inner extended nose of the sprocket and there's another seal in the sprocket outer nose to keep oil off of the clutch/sprocket grabbing surface- very nice.
The CL crankshaft seal probably rides on the 20mm crankshaft surface, not the CA/CB sprocket nose.
My worry about enough oil finding it's way into that little hole disappears when seen as a drain and not a supply.
Even better, another test swipe with a file leads me to think I was wrong about how hard the crankshaft was- it now appears to almost dead soft, so drilling won't be a problem. As long as the axial hole through the crankshaft is at least as big as the hole beneath the sprocket bearing everything should be OK.
I'll probably get a bolt the same pitch as the rotor bolt, borrow time on a lathe to drill a hole through it to act as a guide for the drill bit when I drill the crank- a small and long drill bit will want to wander and whip around, but I've done it before.
Not sure if it will be necessary to plug the hole at the alternator end of the shaft- a little thread sealer will probably do.
Thanks to all for the help. I've attached pictures for anyone who doesn't have parts to look at. I think this is the oil passage in the case teaser was referring to- also the bearing carrier with a mating hole in it and a picture of the extended nose on the starter sprocket with the seal.

Now I remember reading thet Honda replaced the roller bearing with a ball bearing- was there a hole in the ball bearing outer race to use this oil passage?
Don't be shy to tell me if I still don't have this right.

Rick