1962 Superhawk Restoration: Here I go

[LOUD MOUSE]

You bet.
BTW I just received a call from a forum member (I didn't ask him to call) and we discussed the 180 cam timing and how it differs from 360 degree engines.
He now has a better idea how to adjust the valves and what to expect as he does it.
Total profit for me!
Another rider/owner able to enjoy his SH. ......lm

Have it your way, it's you choice,

Jensen

[Spargett]

I respect and enjoy everyone's input. Sometimes different methods and ideologies will work better than others depending on the problem or application. More importantly, I enjoy the concept of an open forum. Different ideas for the same issue always gets the gears turning and teaches the mind new ways of thinking about things that I may not have before. For example, Jensen has an incredibly scientific and methodical way of approaching issues pulling experience from numerous motorcycles. While Ed has an impressive wealth of experience and detailed knowledge dealing elusively with 305's referencing solutions that have been tried and trued repeatedly. Just for the record I've never felt Ed force any sort of part or service, and the few times it was needed, it was great work/parts at what I found to be a very fair price.

Back to the point, I'm sure there's times where one will work and the other won't. But again the part I enjoy, (aside from fixing whatever isn't working) is the discussion and debate that widens all of our perception and teaches us the art of motorcycle maintenance.

[Spargett]

Also for the record, I'd love to throw the bike on a dyno and plan on doing so eventually. As some have pointed out, they aren't always as accessible. For example, the closest one to me that seems to have a technician with the knowledge to dyno and help tune a Superhawk is over 3 hours away. The irony is that the bike's performance isn't reliable enough yet to make the trek. Till then I'll rely on other methods to tune it as best I can with the help of other's experience.

[teazer]

A well calibrated Dyno with an experienced and helpful operator is a powerful tool. The converse is also true that all dynos are not well calibrated and all operators do not know how to set up old bikes.

It's a tool and can be really useful, but it's only one tool in the tray.

In my experience, most owners have no idea how to set up carburation or to read spark plugs and that includes many racers who look like they know better but they don't.

On the flip side, experiments have revealed that a typical Butt-Dyno is even more poorly calibrated and accurate to only +/-10% with a well seasoned operator.

Most owners are capable of learning how to get their jetting into the ball park and that's a useful thing to learn. If we leave 1-2hp on teh table but the bike rides nice, that's fine for most of us because rideability is more important than absolute power on almost any day of the week.

On a tuned and modified motor or one that I can't get right, a dyno is the only way to see what is happening, but I can usually get fairly close by feel.

Just to put that in perspective, we had one CB160 race bike that we changed jets and timing and it felt pretty good. Took it to the dyno and found an additional 10HP and it felt much better. Turned out that our compromise of ignition timing plug heat range and jetting all looked right but the dyno gas analysis showed us why that was misleading.

The flip side ws that teh best needle and jet combo on the dyno was hard to ride and a combo that the dyno said was not as good at the top end turned out to be much better for us in the real world in terms of rideability and lap times.

In case anyone thinks that lap times on a race bike are irrelevant, let me say that the key to a fast lap is not lots of HP. It's smooth clean power especially at part throttle - same as a road bike.

So yep, we use a dyno and seat of the pants for different reasons.

[jensen]

Hi,

I hope you can do something with the info I provide about your cover, and if there is a better and faster way, it’s ok for me, no harm done. Like I said earlier, after dissembling an engine (and cleaning the parts) I check every sealing surface like this, except, (but only if really necessary) the horizontal surfaces of both engine cases.

Do you have a torque wrench ? I suggest people get one (a cheap one will do), to understand the torque which should be applied to bolts and nuts. There are tables with standard torque ranges for all kind of bolts and materials. If I wrench with somebody else, or when I help someone with a bike, I notice that in general people don’t have a clue what kind of torque they have to apply. The m4, m5 and m6 bolts are always over tightened, the m8, m10 and m12 threads are mostly under tightened.

The best example are the cylinder head bolts, in most cases these bolts are way of their initial torque. If using a torque wrench you feel that you torque them down way too much, but it’s not (most cylinder head nuts are under torque). And almost nobody is re- torque them again after 25 to 100 miles.

A lot of people (also on this forum) have problems with their cylinder head packing, it’s leaking oil, blows by etc. In most cases they didn’t use a torque wrench to do a controlled torque down. And they don’t consider even re-torque the nuts after one or two cold – heat-cold – heat cycles.

I dare to say that 50 % of the problems people run into is a torque issue (directly or indirectly).The worst thing is, nobody seems to understand that a top quality grease and a torque wrench are the most important things when wrenching on a bike.

A bad running engine ( but restored and adjusted) is mostly a leaking carburetor, over torque nuts (so the carburetor is warped, air leaks are evident). An over-torque carburetor top (so the carburetor valve sticks in the carburetor), over torque jets (the brass is deformed and leaking extra patrol, so the engine is running to rich), over torque float chamber bolts (so the float chamber is leaking patrol and sucking in air on a place where it’s not aloud and causing uncontrollable pressure differences). On the other side are the mufflers, and I described how the mufflers can be mounted regarding the engine bolts and non leaking mufflers.

These point are leading to an uncontrollable and erratically running engine.

Look at the availability of un-cracked gas tank emblems, and you know what I mean. Over torque it because otherwise these valuable emblems will fall off (locktite is expensive, so why bother use it ?)

Trying to screw metric bolts in jis threads is another example, if it ‘s not going smooth then stop, and see what the problem is. A good and lubricated tread will be smooth, otherwise the tread is not good (damaged or wrong tread), or it’s not lubricated.

About running on a dyno , I wasn’t aware of the fact that the distance between dynoyet centre’s where that big in the US. Having your bike on the stand can be a real eye-opener, and you will learn from it. Next to that, the money involved is mentioned, but I don’t think that is a real issue here. I don’t think that every US citizen is rich, and I know that most bikes are used for hobby only. But it makes me still wonder why people put a lot of money in paint jobs, chrome or re-chroming, lacing wheels, etc. A motorcycle is a cycle driven by a motor (engine), and if you’re serious about riding it, the engine is the most important part on a motorbike.

Most people here on the forum do care more about how the bike looks like (and that’s fine), and some people care also about how good the engine runs (that’s fine too). But sometimes I guess the priority’s are mixed up a bit and money is spend on the least important things, I guess mostly because it’s easier or / and more controllable or more obvious.

That made me wonder "How do people see engines ?" Maybe Bech gave the answer, he says in his thread about the leaking cover, where he titles the engine as a Pandora box.

I think that this is the way most people see engines, as Pandora boxes, and as long the engine runs it’s fine. I always read your thread Scott (with pleasure), and when the bike is finished, you start thinking about the function of the engine. That’s not good or bad (don't feel offended), but says something about the priority in minds of people.

The function of the engine is to run, and as long the oil is not flushing out and it delivers enough power to get you going, it’s alright, isn’t it ?

The function of a mudguard is to guard you from the mud, and as long there are no big holes in it where the mud comes through, it’s alright ? isn’t it ?

The function of a wheel is to roll, and as long it does that, it’s alright isn’t it ?

The function of a chain and sprockets is to transfer the power to the rear wheel , and as long it does that, it’s all right, isn’t it ?

However, that means that (in case of the chain), you should replace it after it snaps, because then it doesn’t function anymore, isn’t it ?

The above statements are not especially written to you Scott, but in general, and are not meant to hurt feelings, nor to be offensive, nor to say that something is more right than other, but I hope it gives something to think and discuss about,

Jensen

[cknight]

Other than the basic tools, torque wrench, and proper lubricants and sealants, it is also most beneficial to have a volt/ohm meter to check voltages and proper grounds. Visually checking wires and connections that are over 40 years old is not the best way to proceed. It doesn't have to be an elaborate digital piece, just a basic analog deal is fine. The small expense incurred can be well worth it, avoiding substantial time running down (and guessing) at a "mysterious" failure. Regards, Chase

[Spargett]

As time goes on, I've begun to learn and understand the process more. More importantly, how profound murphy's law can be. Especially in the context of 50 year old machine's, who's history we do not know before we got ahold of them.

Two philosophies that have caused me the most setbacks were, 1: being overly optimistic about the state of specific components, and not being as critical or detail oriented. I think these two things were fueled by inexperience. 2: It can be very scary for someone to tear open a transmission or take apart your cam when you don't fully understand them. The fear of making a bad problem even worse, or doing something undoable. But letting fear control you is no way to go about anything, especially mechanics.

I feel like at this point, I've just about gone through every single nut a bolt in the deepest darkest pits of the bike which has left me with much confidence and knowledge about the machine. And as I delved into each new foreign territory I always find myself saying, "Man, I really wish I would have done this earlier". Upon retrospect it seems insane and naive to imagine just hopping on a riding without doing so first.

I think the other reason people aren't compelled to tear down and go through each piece of the bike with testing is the fact that they simply just want to ride it. I know I did. What attracted me was not the thought of lying on my back, sweating in a 110° garage covered in oil and cuts troubleshooting and disassembling parts and theories that for some reason beyond my logic or knowledge, isn't working, it was riding. An open road a special bike. The process of repair is bittersweet. I can be an awful experience at times when things are working right, but you also gain invaluable knowledge and pride from your craft. A position I've fallen into and learned to understand and fully respect.

At this point I've learned so much, and still have alot to learn. But I am still eager invest equipping myself with the knowledge and patience it takes to bring a beautiful machine that had one foot in the grave, back to the timeless, high performance, reliable motorcycle it is.