While I wait for a condenser to arrive, I wonder if anybody can help me understand my VINs. (My parts were sent from less than 50 miles away from me Aug. 8, still not here Aug. 24. The Salish Sea and a border lie in-between. Good ol' customs and postal services...but that's another thread.)
I have a '64 305 Dream, frame C78 400579. I got it with boxes of spares, even a CA72 frame. One of the engines is stamped that it belongs to this frame. The current engine in the bike is C77E400707. The one that claims to be from it is CA77E312867.
Where I get confused is that the installed engine seems to be within a sensible range of the frame, while the one that claims to be from it is miles off.
I am going to be rebuilding (at least) one of these engines, and I would really like it to be the 'original,' 'numbers-matching' one. FWIW, I also have (most of) engine C72E1003829, which must have come from that CA72 frame, C721003323.
I wonder if Ed or one of the experts might chime in, please, on what the heck is going on?
Odd serial number question
From what I know there is no way to know for certain which engine # originally came in a given frame. Even at a few hundred numbers off there is a possibility it were replaced at some point. Obvously the closer the better make it appear to be a match. Close numbers doesn't seem to affect value much as anyone that knows these bikes knows they rarely match.
I would stick with the 400 series engine as it is close. Goody 64' CB77
65' CB160
Interesting, goodysnap. I was leaning to the 'marked' one, but I have to say you're right, the one with numbers that (nearly) match seems to be the more logical choice. I fear I may have replace or repair a lot of stuff. This one is among the noisiest engines I've heard, and most of the noises sound like challenging bearings and wierd schtuff in the gearbox.
The good news: I have tons of spare internal parts. The bad news: most of my spares should be presumed to be FUBARed, which means I'll have to do delicate tests and measurements - not my strong point. I welcome any further input. I just dunno about these numbers.
Bottom line , there's only 2 ways to prove it for certain. .
1.Either the engine and frame numbers match identically. 2.Origial owner documented engine and frame numbers. Perform a thorough teardown and inspection. Sort and label your parts. You be surprised what will make noises in there. At 14k my crank and cam bearings looked good after a cleaning and were reused on my rebuild. Good Luck! Goody 64' CB77
65' CB160 Engine and Frame NumbersRainman,
The engine in your frame right now is likely the original: 1. Because your bike is a C78 (domestic) and not a CA78 (export to US - "A" for America), it would have had a C77E engine number (like yours does) from the factory (not a CA77E). The other engine with CA77E 312867 number came from the factory on an export bike ("A"). 2. The engine number in your bike is well within 200 units which is the accepted standard for original numbers (except for 1963 CA78). While it is possible that the engine could have been replaced, getting another top case with a number within 200 units would be very difficult. 3. The other engine with CA77E 312867 number came from the factory on a 1963 bike per the below. It also looks like that engine would have come on a CA77 and not a CA78. Honda changed from the CA77 model to CA78 in 1963 (April?). 1963 CA78 are an anomaly for the number of units difference between frame and engine numbers. Every '63 CA78 I have seen has about 5000 units spread in the engine and frame numbers. The engine/frame number spread for all other 305 Dreams is in the 200 unit range, including 1963 CA77's. With a 2 as the 3rd digit there can't be a 5,000 unit spread, so it looks like the engine came on a CA77. Before you tear your engine down, you might try to locate the source of that noise. You might luck out if it was just the cam chain tension roller or something else easy to replace. If you do tear it down, get everything within specs and you will be fine. Hope that helps.
Thank you for the info!
I am very suspicious of my cam tensioner, it's at maximum extension, and my timing is also completely over to max play on the points plate. I'll have to think on this for a bit...I have a JDM bike? No wonder it isn't working right, I've been swearing at it in English. Anybody know how to say, 'straighten up and fly right, you tin pot on wheels' in Japanese? Sound like you might have a worn cam chain (stretched) which can in turn change the relative positions of the crank and camshaft, although how much I can't say for sure. That doesn't rule out a worn tensioner wheel or (less likely) idler wheel/shaft . It's really not that hard to check out, just 4 bolts to pull the tensioner off once you remove the clamshells. [/url] 63 CA78
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