Blown Head Gasket- Please Assess and Advise

[houseowax]

Hi all-
As I learned from my last post (Jackhammering Sound Coming From Cylinder Head) I have a blown head gasket. I've ordered a complete OEM top end set from Western Hills Honda, have my Hondabond 4 ready to go and have even recently procured a torque wrench.
This evening I split the top end and was dumbfounded by the sludgy mess that I encountered.As advised, I'd removed the master link from the cam chain carefully and wired the ends of the cam chain to the exhaust studs. But when I unbound them to split the top end I accidentally dropped the end of the chain and it slipped down into the bottom end. @#$!
SO...( and I should probably be doing this anyhow)- I'll be removing the cylinder as well and getting a good look at the cylinder walls and pistons plus replacing the cylinder packing.
HEre's where things get shaky-
A) I'm posting some pics of the cylinders and the valves as I saw them when I split the head.There's no overt scarring or dents, just a lot of oil and carbon, but I have no expertise in these matters and I might be overlooking a serious issue. If any of you would be so kind as to look at the pics and share your assessment, it would be invaluable.
B)vI have a '65 engine that I've partially disassembled and I have removed the pistons from the jugs and from the rods. I reattached the pistons according to Silver's recommendations but found easing the cylinders over the pistons to be far more difficult than I'd anticipated.
Is it just a matter of having someone lower the cylinders down over the pistons while another compresses the rings? Also, what should I use to clean the pistons? They are pretty heavily carbonized- can I clean them with any solvent (ie Engine degreaser/carb cleaner) or even better, can I use Simple Green?
C) One last- when I unbolted the cylinder head cover I found all 8 bolts to be very loose- almost no effort at all to break them. What (if any) affect might this have had on my engine's performance?

I apologize for the incredibly long and wordy ( and needy) post, but I'm eager to learn and find most of the resources I come across are too vague or assume I know more than I do.
I'm probably one of the least mechanically experienced people here, but I'm learning. I'm at a point know where I have just enough knowledge to do some real harm, so I'm trying to exercise some caution here.

Thanks in advance, everyone-
Steve

[rustywrench]

Steve,
You are about to enter an amazing world of mechanics. By the fact that you were brave enough to break this engine down to analize her problems is a credit to your willingness to try. That says a lot in my opinion and as well, I say doing is learning. So since you have a willing side of you, let's start with the oil and carbon. I see burned oil from most likely bad worn rings. The loose head nuts probably lead to the head gasket also. You could have worn valve guides as well but you need to start somewhere. So give us an idea of how the budget is and that will tell us what you can accomplish and how much it will cost you. Don't be shy, you've already taken the most important step.. RW

[teazer]

Great start.

You're right, sliding those jugs back onto the pistons take patience and dexterity, but it's not too difficult. I like to have some way to hold the pistons steady and A strip of aluminum with a slot in teh middle to clear the rod is a great tool, but not absolutely necessary.

Compressing rings can be a pain, but assuming that ring gasp were checked first, It's not impossible. Some people like to use ring compressors which are a strip of flat steel which holds the rings tight while the top is slipped over the piston.

Again, really useful but not 100% necessary. The guy that probably fitted more pistons than the rest of us is Loud Mouse.

That's quite a lot of oil. The loose nuts were probably the cause of the blown gasket - insufficient clamping force. That has also allowed oil to pass out the front and to make a mess there.

BTW, the only place you should need 3 Bond is between the crankcase halves and if they're not to be split, then it can stay in the drawer.

I would pull the barrels off and inspect the pistons and rings. As RW mentioned, it's very possible that the rings are worn. If there's a lot of dark stain below the bottom ring, then the rings (at least) are worn.

Remove the pistons, clean the tops with a wire brush and/or Simple Green and degrease the barrels and then let's see what the skirts look like and you can measure the wear. These are pretty simple engines. fabulous design for the times but nothing too complicated.

Good luck and keep posting those pics.

[LOUD MOUSE]

YA received good advice from RW and teazer for sure.
I expect the rings are worn out and from the pic ya need a new cam chain tensioner. ........lm

Hi all-
As I learned from my last post (Jackhammering Sound Coming From Cylinder Head) I have a blown head gasket. I've ordered a complete OEM top end set from Western Hills Honda, have my Hondabond 4 ready to go and have even recently procured a torque wrench.
This evening I split the top end and was dumbfounded by the sludgy mess that I encountered.As advised, I'd removed the master link from the cam chain carefully and wired the ends of the cam chain to the exhaust studs. But when I unbound them to split the top end I accidentally dropped the end of the chain and it slipped down into the bottom end. @#$!
SO...( and I should probably be doing this anyhow)- I'll be removing the cylinder as well and getting a good look at the cylinder walls and pistons plus replacing the cylinder packing.
HEre's where things get shaky-
A) I'm posting some pics of the cylinders and the valves as I saw them when I split the head.There's no overt scarring or dents, just a lot of oil and carbon, but I have no expertise in these matters and I might be overlooking a serious issue. If any of you would be so kind as to look at the pics and share your assessment, it would be invaluable.
B)vI have a '65 engine that I've partially disassembled and I have removed the pistons from the jugs and from the rods. I reattached the pistons according to Silver's recommendations but found easing the cylinders over the pistons to be far more difficult than I'd anticipated.
Is it just a matter of having someone lower the cylinders down over the pistons while another compresses the rings? Also, what should I use to clean the pistons? They are pretty heavily carbonized- can I clean them with any solvent (ie Engine degreaser/carb cleaner) or even better, can I use Simple Green?
C) One last- when I unbolted the cylinder head cover I found all 8 bolts to be very loose- almost no effort at all to break them. What (if any) affect might this have had on my engine's performance?

I apologize for the incredibly long and wordy ( and needy) post, but I'm eager to learn and find most of the resources I come across are too vague or assume I know more than I do.
I'm probably one of the least mechanically experienced people here, but I'm learning. I'm at a point know where I have just enough knowledge to do some real harm, so I'm trying to exercise some caution here.

Thanks in advance, everyone-
Steve

[houseowax]

Thanks fellas. I can't say how much I appreciate your advice and encouragement. When I bought the bike I intended to learn all about it and do all -ALL- the repair and maintenance myself. That's an integral part of owning a bike IMO. But I envisioned maybe a carb rebuild to be enough to get me on the road. I bought the bike in November and I've probably tripled the price of it just buying tools, parts, solvents, oils, and beer. Not that I'm really complaining- I'm having the time of my life and am really excited about learning - up until this point my most complex foray into vehicular mechanics was changing the oil in my old '72 Karmann Ghia when I was in high school.
RW- The budget is as needs be, I guess. Obviously I'd like to spend LESS money rather than more, but there's no point in doing it halfway, right? I'll happily spring for new rings, as they're plentiful and relatively cheap I might as well. If I need new pistons I suppose new pistons it is. I see that you and Dr Frankenstein had a helluva time locating standard-bore pistons; would it be wise to have (if needed) the jugs bored and just get a set of +1? I don't know if the pistons are stock or if they're oversized- I'm assuming after I've removed and cleaned them there'll be some sort of identifying mark that will solve that mystery.
Teazer- I watched some videos of piston ring compressors and it helped me understand how they work, but I don't really grasp how they'd be used in this application. I see they allow one to tap the pistons into the cylinders. but how then does one attach the piston to the rod? I assumed that piston would be affixed to the rod THEN the cylinders would be lowered over them, which wouldn't allow for the ring compressors to be removed. Perhaps you lower the pistons into the cylinders, then lift the cylinders and attach the pistons to the rods while the cylinders are held in place by someone or something else?
I bought the Hondabond 4 with the intention of using it sparingly at the head packing and the side cover gaskets. I've learned here that it's not necessary nor recommended for the head gasket, but there is a line in Silver's guide that suggests "It is often a good idea to smear a little non-hardening gasket sealer around the inside of the O- ring holes in the gasket, to prevent oil migration through the gasket, preventing a premature head gasket leak." So i might give that a try. I recall a recent post in which someone applied too much of the wrong product to the wrong surface and wound up with a major leak, so I'll be cautious.
I'll pull the cylindersdoff soon and snap some pics; hopefully nothing really hair-raising awaits!
LM- Thanks for your input as always. And yes, I forgot to mention that but it seems that my cam chain tensioner had been torqued down rather tightly. I remember you advising someone earlier regarding the condition of the tensioner wheel and I recognized that as a problem. Fortunately I have a complete '65 engine from which to claim parts and the wheel in that one is like new.

Thanks again, everyone - your advice really is invaluable and bolsters my confidence as I forge on into the unknown. Stay tuned!

PS: Here's some pics of the spare engine pulled from a '65 (NOT the one I'm currently working on, which is from a '63). Just so I have some basis for comparison, how would you rate the condition of these pistons?

[rustywrench]

Steve,
Here is where the rubber meets the road as they say. It is entirely possible to hone the cylinders,install new rings, and put this engine back on the road with minimal expense. I say this because I've done exactly that, but then I have the micrometers to measure the parts. Since you don't, it complicates things a bit. You need to determine exactly what the bore measures out to and then determine what your next move will be. A good machinist can tell you that. All this is relevant to just getting this thing back on the road. For a good quality rebuild that will last for a while, you will have to go the extra mile and pay a machinist to bore and fit the pistons to the cylinders.
The re-assembly is quite easy and we'll guide you through it. On these engines the block is lowered onto the pistons. I do it one ring at a time, some may have a factory compressor cone and one fellow used a radiator hose clamp to compress the rings, then tap the block down onto the pistons. Once in place, the clamp is removed. Pretty clever I may add.
Now, here's some food for thought about your head. Again more choices. To evaluate the heads needs, I prefer a simple test to determine my next action. I position the head so that two ports are upright. Pour a 1/4 cup of gasoline into the valve ports and if you have no moisture around the valve seat itself, I say they are tight enough for service. Do the same for the remaining two. A weep would be OK and a seep or more needs attention. Then you may want to whisper sweet nothin's to LM and see if he'll do your head. I hear he does a stellar job.
So now you are on the road to recovery. It won't be long and you'll be riding again. RW

[houseowax]

RW, thanks for your reply. All in all it seems fairly straightforward and I feel confident that I will be able to tackle this project with minimal stress. So far I've really enjoyed it- especially as I tore down that '65 engine previously and since knew better what to expect.
I'll post pictures soon and see what you think- to my eye the pistons and cylinders looked pretty clean and free of scars or irregularities, but if I have to have the engine honed etc I can't think of anyone whom I'd trust more than LM to do the job.
Pictures and more ramblings to come.