CL crankshaft with an electric starter

[LOUD MOUSE]

I'm sorry I don't reply to all the questions ya ask.
Some answers are right in front of ya!
I'm of the opinion ya like to PARADE your unusual parts. (see what I've got!)
As for the plug size with the heads I feel ya have one of each and don't need me to go to my shop and compare for you. (how many 10mm ya say ya have?)
Your pictures on the forum are usually only enough to get a reply followed with more statements which as I stated bring a Ya But.
Ya did a great job with the winkers for sure.
Engine numbers can be stamped into any engine case and has been done by some to make a new/different case look like it came with the bike.
That's a reason to show what style and how the numbers ya say are CB72E-59.
The lines on the covers are not cracks and why should I have to tell ya that as a piece of sand paper will/would have shown ya such a simple fact.
THEY ARE NOT CRACKS in the material
Just a line from a mold which is so very common when molds are heated and cooled over and over.
Ya don't like my style well I'm the one with lots of info and I gathered most by comparison of parts
with in hand and pics and from your massages ya cause me to think ya have lots of parts to compare to each other and learn the easy way.
LOOK AT THEM.
Did ya see the messages just before yours about the bearing teazer found and how he offered the info?
Did ya see my reply?
Try that style and good things will happen I'm sure. ................................lm

Hi,

Teazer, I'm sorting out the dilemma on the early engine by cleaning it and look at it carefully (read further). Since there were no suggestions on the forum other then give me more pictures I guess I have to find the info elsewhere, or even worse, not find it at all.

LM, I also asked info about the differences between a 10 mm spark plug head and a 12 mm spark plug head, again, no real answers, I asked questions about the strange engine breather, again, no answers.

I pm'd you with details, so don't say I'm holding back info, I did not find the time to clean the engine and take pictures, I don't like your suggestion, they are provocative.

I don't play games LM, and I don't like you suggest that I do. I make pictures of parts and put them on this forum.

I don't put engine numbers on the Internet of my riding bikes, I just don't like to do that, you certainly don't have to question that, nor make fun out of it.

In the past I asked you for help, and you refused to do so, saying it's not worth your time (cracks in side covers and engine cases). So don't say you always helpful.

I pictured every winker I know off, and there brackets, again, I'm not playing games with carrots and I don't think you're a rabbit either.

Again, I appreciate your help when you give it.

Here under, is the text in the PM to you (02 june), where I give many details about the engine.
I don't understand that you suggest in public that I play games or that I withhold information, I do not.

So Teazer, this is what I wrote to LM, since he was the only one who was reacting on the thread :

Hi LM,

Like I said it's a pre 61 engine, but it hasn't a number.
The only inscription is CB72E 59, so I guess it's a 1959 pre production model.
There is nothing written behind the 59, so also that will stay a mystery too.

It is the same engine with the strange breather, mentioned in the same parts ID section.
I got this engine from someone with two boxes of CB72 stuff, but most parts are different, some more some less. I know that here in the Netherlands is a complete 1959 CB72, but I was not able to trace it down yet. The women I got this stuff from didn't know where here husband (passed away) got the stuff, so I guess it will stay a mystery.

In the box where several alu shock covers, a few 10 mm spark plug heads, and many other very interesting parts. Strange foot peg rubbers with Honda inscriptions in it, an aluminum front fender and a aluminum gas tank cap. the gas tank itself has a slightly different shape, and is holed badly.

The engine has a 360 degree crank, the strange breather, and very rare (and domestic) rotating transmission. Furthermore there are no inscriptions on the rotor, and it has the early dream camshaft sprocket (with counterweights).

It will be very hard to rebuild the engine, because it has a lot of damage, but Ill do my best.
The first gear is teeth less, the shaft is bend severe, the crankcase is cracked in several places. Kick starter shaft is broken in two pieces, and the camshafts are beyond repair.
The crank itself turns free, but the sound is not what it should be, probably the bearings are all shot.

However it is a wet sump engine, so it's not a early dream C71 / C76 special build something, the oil pump is also CB72, so are the holes in the crank where the oil pump fits.

I have this stuff for a month or two and I slowly work through the parts labeling them, but every time I find something different.

I have a lot of early 1961 parts, but I see also many differences between these parts and the early 61 parts.

I hoped that more people would react, so I could learn from the info, but I think that is not the case.

Jensen

I never got any serious info from LM so far, so I guess I'm standing alone here.

Jensen

[LOUD MOUSE]

As so often the numbers are hand written so I suspect a person looked at a parts book and wrote what they saw not realizing it is a first issue type part.
Or could be a HONDA repop to the first issue type and would have that 060 code.
Who's to know for sure.
The one I have has holes at the condenser location but no threads and this one doesn't even have holes.
Back around 1984 HONDA repoped the CB72 seat and I purchased 2 of them.
When I tried to install one on my 1963 CB77 to wouldn't fit.
It was made to the Short Frame Mount measurements.?????!!!!!!!
Now who do ya suppose thought to use the first design spec to repop a seat that had been changed after very few of the first design were actually issued and there were orders for the later issue??????!!!!!!!!
Ya have to wonder for sure. ...........lm

[quote="LOUD MOUSE" Here is another one of those engine tops.
No holes at the condenser location............lm]

What part number is that one? Is isn't -060 as it says on the paper slip and it appears to have different baffle arrangement and no oil breather outlet. So we know it isn't a regular CB72 top cover. Any idea what it's off?

[ricksd]

I'm the guy who started this topic, so, for the sake of readers who don't want to read every post I'll sort of summarize. There isn't complete agreement about the what actually happens in this tiny passage, but everyone seems to agree that drilling the 2 holes in the crankshaft should be done to mount an electric starter to a CL crank- so that's the first step.
Now I need a starter clutch, sprocket, motor,etc. Before anyone says 'just buy the correct parts' I'll defend my habit of adapting parts- there are only so many original and correct parts available- since I'm building a mutt of bike, there's no need for me to use up parts that someone may need for a Pebble Beach style restoration.
A CB350 clutch housing bolts right onto a CL77 rotor- the dowel pin is on the wrong side of a mounting screw but that's not a big deal- pry off the cover and transfer punch for the new pin, or cut off a transfer punch and put it in the hole to mark the new location.


I have a CA77 sprocket, and the 'nose' that the cluch grabs onto is the same diameter as the CB350 sprocket- so it should work- the springs from the CB350 clutch housing I scrounged had lost their will to extend, so I can't spin test the system yet.
I don't have a CB/CA clutch housing to measure- maybe someone does and can help. The CB350 housing is 0.500" thick, and mounted onto a CL77 rotor the assembly is 2.251" overall height- can anyone confirm this is the same as a genuine CB/CA rotor/clutch assembly?
It looks like the CB350 rotor and stator could be adapted also- rotors are different depth-

but the taper feels tight. The key in the rotors is phased different than the CL77, so the timing marks would be fouled up, but they could be rescribed- easy to find TDC with the heads off, and a degree wheel would be easy enough to mount.
The CB350 parts are dirt cheap- I'll do more fitting and report back what I find.
The CB350 clutch hub, basket, plates, etc look promising too- a little more work to replace the basket gears with a chain, but I could change to a more available chain at the same time.
It looks like tha CB350 starter chain is even the right length- I got a broken, rusty chain with my basket case bike and some starter motor parts- planetary gearhead, etc. Need to work on a motor next.
Thanks for all the help and advice so far- I'm having fun, hope you guys are too.
Rick

[teazer]

Rick,

I like your approach to creative solutions. Nice measuring equipment. I'd try a dry assembly to see if it all fits. The rollers will probably grab without springs for evaluating whether it will all work together.

[G-Man]

Rick

Looks like you are making real progress there! Here are some pics of the replacement assembly I bought for my CB77. The width of the assembly (both rotors marked C72) is 2.27" . That's a little bit taller than yours but not much. You should be on the right side at 2.25". CB250 / 350 parts are not as plentiful here and I managed to pick up my replacement for $18 I think on eBay US.

My original one was badly rusted and the screws holding the two parts together had come unscrewed, which must've made an interesting noise as they rubbed.

Keep us posted on this, especially how you get on with drilling the crank. I'm going to set up a fixture in my milling machine to drill the cross hole with a diamond burr. The central hole should be easy enough if I can get hold of a long-enough drill. I have a couple of used CB77 cranks but I would like my restored CB77 to have a new crank, if possible.

Have fun!

G

[LOUD MOUSE]

I just inserted a piece of .032 safety wire into the hole at the balancer weight end of the tapered shaft of a CL77 crank and I find it is drilled enough for ya to drill a hole 2 1/4 inch from the tapered end of the shaft and in line with the drift key slot and ya will have what ya need to oil the starter sprocket.
No need to drill into the tapered end at the rotor bolt threads. ............lm

Rick

Looks like you are making real progress there! Here are some pics of the replacement assembly I bought for my CB77. The width of the assembly (both rotors marked C72) is 2.27" . That's a little bit taller than yours but not much. You should be on the right side at 2.25". CB250 / 350 parts are not as plentiful here and I managed to pick up my replacement for $18 I think on eBay US.

My original one was badly rusted and the screws holding the two parts together had come unscrewed, which must've made an interesting noise as they rubbed.

Keep us posted on this, especially how you get on with drilling the crank. I'm going to set up a fixture in my milling machine to drill the cross hole with a diamond burr. The central hole should be easy enough if I can get hold of a long-enough drill. I have a couple of used CB77 cranks but I would like my restored CB77 to have a new crank, if possible.

Have fun!

G

[G-Man]

LM

I have just checked two NOS CL77 cranks, where there is no hole and two used where there is a hole. Rick needs to check to make sure, but if he has a drilling, he's all set.

G