30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?

[sdaigle240]

;)
+1 for fabrication and improvement

[jensen]

Hi steve,

I don't understand ?

Jensen

[sdaigle240]

haha i forget were from all over the world.

the wink was a "gotchya" on the whole chineese version.

the +1 was a thumbs up to you for your efforts on fabrication and improving designs/products


sorry about that...

[jensen]

Hi,

I screwed up a thread of a C50 engine case with the described issue. I used a cheap Chinese magnetic plug. I bought this C50, changed oil and the plug and cleaned the oil filter (clutch).
Riding it , it appeared that the first gear and kick start weren't working smoothly. I decided to look into the engine, so I pulled the plug out..... and destroyed the thread (but the thread wasn't fresh either).

A piece of a tooth of the first gear was responsible for that.
Also the plug was a little to long, the thread was sticking out in the crankcase, working as a corkscrew and pushing this particle in the thread.

I know that the risk is very very low, but it was my lucky day (NOT).

So I learned two things :

Always be sure that the plug is shorter than the crankcase thread, and the magnet should not be glued to the plug (magnet was a bit loose too.)

Jensen

[sotxbill]

Bill - Just curious - When all of these oil tests are conducted (API, JASO etc), are they specifically referencing 30w oil as some kind of benchmark? And if so, why?

in most cases, yes.. some of the newer tests are reference to group II oils more specifically.

[onchiman]

dang, sometimes you guys just take it to far :) ive never found myself scared of doing damage removing or installing the magnetic drain plug on an automobile transmission. in my experience the magnetic strength in relation to the size of the metal bits is very strong, and takes some serious whipping with a rag to remove. never had those bits "fall off" and go into the threads, it dosent hurt that the surfaces are being flushed with exiting oil upon removal.

i do prefer this style for obvious reasons, but honestly guys.....

i run this style on my car oil pan, doubt were lucky enough to have this option unless something can be cross referenced.

I also magnetize the tips of the dipsticks on my bikes. Just wrap a few turns of insulated wire around the end of the dipstick and then touch the ends of the wires to the battery terminals (very briefly). That way when you check your oil level, you just wipe off any particles it's collected. Every little bit helps.

[Snakeoil]

At the risk of waking a sleeping bear, I'd just like to say that for the most part, I truly enjoyed and appreciated this thread. I do think that some of the personal comments could have been done without, but the technical content was excellent. I've heard all the arguments for oils in vintage bikes from a number of fronts, being a vintage HD and Brit bike owner, too. Some is urban legend, some are folks not willing to change, some are folks afraid to change out of ignorance, some is pure science, some is applied science, some is theory, some is back by empirical data.

Jensen, your posts are always top notch. I don't think a post or thread can get too technical or too detailed. For those who do not appreciate the details or do not have the background to fully understand what is being said, my only suggestion would be to either skip the post or take on the challenge to learn. Please don't ask people to hold back info. Ignorance is not bliss, as some would have you think.

I'll add my two cents worth based on some research I did a short time ago regarding the term "Synthetic Oil". Based on a lawsuit, the term synthetic oil was approved to be used for any oil that meets a certain spec. I cannot remember the spec, but I believe it is grade 4 or 5. So, that means that Amsoil, which is a true synthetic in that it is a man-made oil, meets the spec and so does the Castrol Synthetic, which is a fossil based oil. I just wanted to mention that because of the discussion regarding blends of syn and fossil oils. Many of the syn oils on the market today are actually fossil based oils that meet the spec for what is now known as synthetic oil.

I did notice that not a lot of contributors to this thread mentioned the tranny and sump using the same oil. Although the subject of shear and it's affect on oil molecules was discussed. After doing a lot of research, I came to the personal conclusion that an MA rated diesel oil is probably the best choice for an engine that shares its oil with the tranny, because the shearing of the molecules by the tranny probably does more to downgrade the properties of the oil for the engine, than the engine itself does. And to the point made by one of the posters on this thread, economics come into play in that decision. You can buy name brand diesel oil such as Shell Rotella in Walmart for a reasonable price. Not that oil is cheaper than an engine rebuild. But the convenience of having a decent oil readily available is an added bonus.

As an engineer that spent a career in combustion turbines, I know what heat can do to oils. For that reason, I was always a hard core Amsoil customer. I've backed off that a bit after doing more research and use Mobil 1 in place of it, basically for the ease in getting it locally. I too have never liked the Amsoil marketing model. Always reminded me of cross betweem Girl Scout cookies and Mary Kay Products selling philosophies.

So, I just wanted to say thanks to Jensen and others who made true technical contributions or arguments regarding ND 30wt versus modern multi-wt. oils. And for what it's worth, the standard splash lubricated, flat head B&S lawnmower engine has a design target life of 250 hours with an oil change interval of approximately 8 hours.

regards,
Rob