Code on the frame

[jensen]

Hi LM,

Thanks for this information. If you found two CL72 with the clevis mount and stickers then you're sure about this.

These stickers where only for the Japanese (domestic) market. In the early years of production, these stickers where written in Japanese, just as the examples in this threat.

I've seen a few CL72 here in the Netherlands, the imported CL72 (from the USA) had these stickers on the swing arm (double eyed). I also seen a few CL72 which where not imported from the US, but came to Europe via Germany, that did not have these stickers on the swing arm (the Clevis type swing arm), these CL72's where in original condition. This was the reason to ask you if you where sure about this fact.

But, as far as your verification goes, I assume that at least in the US, both types swing arms had a sticker on the swing arm.

So, the question that I asked you if you where sure about the stickers on the CL72 swing arms, is answered with yes,

By the way, that brings me to another question : Did all CL77 had the clevis type swing arm ?

Thanks LM,

Jensen

[LOUD MOUSE]

I made the "Sticker Statement" as I have restored (at least) 6 CL72 (one of each color in my house at one time) bikes and have had, ridden a 1962 and 1963 in the early 60's and one of my restorations is a 1964 TYPE 2 engine bike which is at the AMA museum.
I have on site 2 1964 complete bikes and many other Bones for the CL72/77 HONDA.
It may interest you/all others to know that the CL72 bikes had 3 different cast front brake hubs and the CL77 small brake was different than those.
HONDA issued at least 4 different constructed gas tanks for the CL72/77., 2 seat pans, 2 skid plates, 2 side and center stands, 2 head light chrome rings, buckets, 3 tail light lens, only one carb design for the CL72 but 2 for the CL77, CL72 had 3 frame designs and many other changes over the years of mfg.
Not many of the Large Brake CL72 bikes were issued and I have one here I many get to someday. I HOPE!
May I ask how long you have been watching the CB/CL72/77 HONDA"S Jensen?
As near I know the answer is yes. ..................lm


Did all CL77 had the clevis type swing arm ?

Hi LM,

Thanks for this information. If you found two CL72 with the clevis mount and stickers then you're sure about this.

These stickers where only for the Japanese (domestic) market. In the early years of production, these stickers where written in Japanese, just as the examples in this threat.

I've seen a few CL72 here in the Netherlands, the imported CL72 (from the USA) had these stickers on the swing arm (double eyed). I also seen a few CL72 which where not imported from the US, but came to Europe via Germany, that did not have these stickers on the swing arm (the Clevis type swing arm), these CL72's where in original condition. This was the reason to ask you if you where sure about this fact.

But, as far as your verification goes, I assume that at least in the US, both types swing arms had a sticker on the swing arm.

So, the question that I asked you if you where sure about the stickers on the CL72 swing arms, is answered with yes,

By the way, that brings me to another question : Did all CL77 had the clevis type swing arm ?

Thanks LM,

Jensen

[jensen]

Loud Mouse,

I don't know how to react on your mail, because I can't interpret your last sentence in a positive way. "May I ask how long you have been watching the CB/CL72/77 HONDA"S Jensen? "
, but I'll give it a try.

Yes, you may ask me anything. I'm 42 years old, riding motorcycles from my eighteenth birthday, and I don't have a car (my wife has one). In the first 10 years I rode mainly two strokes, the last ten years I'm into Honda classics, mainly the CB72/ 77 and C72 / 77. The CL72 / 77 are rarely seen here in Europe, but I really like those bikes.

My CB72 is in my possession for 10 years now, so is my C77, the rest came later. I don't have a CL72, but I like to have one.

I try to buy, get and read every article, book, or magazines about these beautiful bikes I can lay my hands on. I also try to speak as many people who worked with these bikes, and I'm always ready to learn something that I didn't know.

I know that 10 years of working and learning on my bikes can never be compared to your experience., but does that mean that I can't ask questions like if you're sure about something ?

Information is more important then the person(s)who provide it.

The fact is that I don't doubt that you (as a person) are right or wrong, but that two pieces of information are not equal and I don't know why. And so, if I see or hear something that is new to me, or different from what I know, (or thought I knew), I ask questions. If my information isn't complete or I'm not sure, I do research by asking people or/and looking in my literature. The main reason is that I want to know the facts, and sometimes asking critical questions is part of that.

I don't understand why you're reacting a bit irritated by the fact that I asked you the question that you where sure about the stickers on the CL72 swing arm, or do I imagine that you reacting a little different on this question than your reactions on other questions ?.

There's no doubt that I, and so many others, do respect everything you say or write down.
I learned a lot from you, I read almost all your mailing on this forum. As far as I know you didn't wrote a book or guide, like Mr. Silver did, but maybe you should do that, at least I would buy a copy of it.

Thanks for the answer on my question about the swing arm, I guess Honda introduced the swing arm with clevis on the CL72, the same time as the CL77 was introduced, so that has to be 1965, but maybe late 1964.

I hope that you will write many reactions or / and answers to subjects that are passing by on this forum and others, I really do,

Jensen

[LOUD MOUSE]

I ask that you take no offense to my questions in my last post.
I had stated all USA imports were a certain way as I knew them (I've owned plenty) and as you disagreed I needed you to explain in a way that I could better understand where/how you obtained your knowledge.
I see by your reply we both access info for these bikes in a similar way.
I wanted to know your HONDA CL72/77 history so I have a feel of your experience.
There was a feller on the list who "knew it all" about the CB77 and was wrong most of the time even though I offered/showed proof/facts to him.
Well it turned out he and a friend had both bought new ones and because theirs were a certain way "all others were that way".
Well it sort of came to pass that one answer he gave to a question asked by a feller on the forum exposed the fact that he had actually owned a CB72 not a CB77.
You may have noticed I haven't questioned how your HONDA'S were/are in your country.
I do wonder why ya keyed in on the tag being or not being on the CL72 with your imports over these years though.?
Simple reason being you are there and I'm here in the USA where I've been involved with the CB/CL72/77 and no others for many, many years.
Some years back I mentioned to a friend that I was curious which direction the screw of the top chrome clamp of the CL72/77 was installed at HONDA as I'd seen evidence that we were not installing it in the correct direction when we restored a bike or replaced the gaiter.
Low and behold he found a pic which he shared with me which proved that the way I suspected was in fact true.
If ya ever have a question on these CB/CL72/77 HONDA"S and think I can help just ask and I offer/share what I know. ............lm

Loud Mouse,

I don't know how to react on your mail, because I can't interpret your last sentence in a positive way. "May I ask how long you have been watching the CB/CL72/77 HONDA"S Jensen? "
, but I'll give it a try.

Yes, you may ask me anything. I'm 42 years old, riding motorcycles from my eighteenth birthday, and I don't have a car (my wife has one). In the first 10 years I rode mainly two strokes, the last ten years I'm into Honda classics, mainly the CB72/ 77 and C72 / 77. The CL72 / 77 are rarely seen here in Europe, but I really like those bikes.

My CB72 is in my possession for 10 years now, so is my C77, the rest came later. I don't have a CL72, but I like to have one.

I try to buy, get and read every article, book, or magazines about these beautiful bikes I can lay my hands on. I also try to speak as many people who worked with these bikes, and I'm always ready to learn something that I didn't know.

I know that 10 years of working and learning on my bikes can never be compared to your experience., but does that mean that I can't ask questions like if you're sure about something ?

Information is more important then the person(s)who provide it.

The fact is that I don't doubt that you (as a person) are write or wrong, but that two pieces of information are not equal and I don't know why. And so, if I see or hear something that is new to me, or different from what I know, (or thought I knew), I ask questions. If my information isn't complete or I'm not sure, I do research by asking people or/and looking in my literature. The main reason is that I want to know the facts, and sometimes asking critical questions is part of that.

I don't understand why you're reacting a bit irritated by the fact that I asked you the question that you where sure about the stickers on the CL72 swing arm, or do I imagine that you reacting a little different on this question than your reactions on other questions ?.

There's no doubt that I, and so many others, do respect everything you say or write down.
I learned a lot from you, I read almost all your mailing on this forum. As far as I know you didn't wrote a book or guide, like Mr. Silver did, but maybe you should do that, at least I would buy a copy of it.

Thanks for the answer on my question about the swing arm, I guess Honda introduced the swing arm with clevis on the CL72, the same time as the CL77 was introduced, so that has to be 1965, but maybe late 1964.

I hope that you will write many reactions or / and answers to subjects that are passing by on this forum and others, I really do,

Jensen

[bech]

Hi Jensen

Thanks. That’s exactly the information I was looking for.

Hi Bech,

A while ago Jos Creussen (also from the Netherlands) had the same question, and he answered his own question (it was translated by a Japanese friend if him).

This label is also placed on very early CB72 from 1659 to 1962 (on the top of the rear fork).
It's a tag from the Japanese government, an official certificate.

http://www.creusen-hiemerda.nl/Jos/CL72.pdf
A lot of characters are the same, so read it, compare the characters and enjoy.

Another clue of it's existence only in Japan.

Jensen

[jensen]

Hi Bech,

Thanks for your reply, however, a few mails back I wrote " Another clue of it's existence only in Japan ". but as a result of the discussion with LM I have to correct this. The sicker is not a prove that this CB250 was an domestic only model, it probably was, but not because of the sticker. As long as no one here on the forum says otherwise, we assume it is only a domestic model.

Jensen

[jensen]

Loud Mouse,

First of all I appreciate your reply, thank you.
As I answered the question, I won't take offense.

As it comes to facts, I'm not near as experienced as you LM.

However, I do know my share about engineering, as it's my daily work. I have a very experienced friend with a dynojet and the knowledge how to use it. If you've ridden two strokes, you will know that an engine is no mystery for those who have.

Maybe there are more differences between the models to different country's then we (I) know about. Winkers, tail lights, front lights, colors (here where no white C's in Europe), speedo's, yetting of the carbs, etc. Most common parts are mentioned in the parts manual, but some not. For example the left handle lever bracket and switch gear for the winker type I have on my CB72. As far as I know, there's no part number for it, it's not in the parts manual either (and I have number 1, 2, 3 and 4 for the CB72 / 77). I also have this special taillight for a early C77 with Honda above it, no part number, and not in a manual. I also have some very strange engine cases, CB72, but different.

There's so much to learn, especially for those who didn't live in that time.

Jensen