What a concept - A Girl Bringing Back Her 1966 Super Hawk

[Vince Lupo]

Did you ever do anything about the Rick's stator?

[DJM]

If all your electrical components (and the wiring) are good you should be able to ride all day, or all night, on your CB77 with the Headlight ON.

I have a '64 CB77 and a '65 CL77 and ride both regularly, for safety reasons always with the lights ON. Eighty to one hundred miles a day is commonplace on either bike with twice that sometimes and I've never had problems with the battery going flat on either bike. In fact, after starting a run with a battery slightly 'low' after standing for a few weeks I've arrived home with a fully charged battery even after running all day with the lights ON.

Both bikes have the original standard 50 year old alternators, not even N.O.S. replacements. The CL still has the original 1965 rectifier, the CB a more modern solid state job. In my opinion there's a lot of rubbish written about how poor these charging systems were, sometimes being referred to as only a 'battery maintenance system'. I've never seen charging problems mentioned in any period road tests either.

If the original alternators were so poor why did Honda introduce a 'low output' version on later bikes to stop batteries being overcharged? Seems no one can answer that one.

Just my opinion of course.

[Vince Lupo]

If all your electrical components (and the wiring) are good you should be able to ride all day, or all night, on your CB77 with the Headlight ON.

I have a '64 CB77 and a '65 CL77 and ride both regularly, for safety reasons always with the lights ON. Eighty to one hundred miles a day is commonplace on either bike with twice that sometimes and I've never had problems with the battery going flat on either bike. In fact, after starting a run with a battery slightly 'low' after standing for a few weeks I've arrived home with a fully charged battery even after running all day with the lights ON.

Both bikes have the original standard 50 year old alternators, not even N.O.S. replacements. The CL still has the original 1965 rectifier, the CB a more modern solid state job. In my opinion there's a lot of rubbish written about how poor these charging systems were, sometimes being referred to as only a 'battery maintenance system'. I've never seen charging problems mentioned in any period road tests either.

If the original alternators were so poor why did Honda introduce a 'low output' version on later bikes to stop batteries being overcharged? Seems no one can answer that one.

Just my opinion of course.

I'm not in a position to answer the question about the high output vs the low output rotor (I've have the high output rotor in my '66), but what I can tell you is that after 50 years these charging systems might not (in general) be what they used to be. Rotors lose their magnetism (even an NOS rotor might not be what it was back in the day), selenium-based rectifiers can degrade, and stators can also not be what they used to be. I'm sure you're aware of all of this, and you've been very fortunate to have not had any issues with your systems. I know that even my '81 CB900f had a marginal charging system -- add even one extra light to that bike and you'd be asking for trouble. As far as my bike goes, when it had all the original components, the best it could do was 12.8 volts with the lights on. I'd call that 'maintenance'. Even Bill Silver refers to it as such -- quoting from his CB72/77 Reference Guide: "One of the most frequent complaints that I hear concerning the Honda 250-305 models is that the charging systems are either a) draining the batteries while sitting or b) won't keep them charged while riding....There really isn't much reserve designed into the system. It is really a battery maintenance system and not a true battery charging system." I'm sure if I delved more deeply into his writings, I'm sure I could find out why Honda switched from the 'high-output' rotor to the 'low-output' rotor. Actually, maybe I'll send him a Facebook message and see if he can definitively answer the question.

I've personally upgraded to the Rick's stator/regulator, the high-output rotor and a gel battery, plus LED taillight and I think I'm in the 13.8 volts range now, and after 13 years of ownership and having put about 29,000 miles on it myself, I am comfortable with its output. It may have been different 'back in the day' when these bikes were used more for daily transport, and today they're more as 'weekend warriors', but I'm not sure if that makes a difference. Perhaps someone with more knowledge that I have can weigh in on why Honda switched rotors -- that's actually a very good question!

[DJM]

I can't disagree with anything Vince says. When I say my electrical systems are STANDARD, I mean just that. Even the headlight bulbs are the measly 35/35watt original size. I wouldn't expect them to cope with 'even one extra light' more than it was designed for although they both cope fine with none LED Flashing indicators. The issue of batteries going flat while standing is almost always due to the old rectifiers 'leaking' reverse current which will drain even a good battery in a matter of days. There's an easy fix for that.

I'm lucky in that most of my riding is done at sensible speeds on open roads, hence engine revs are enough to keep up a decent alternator output, might be different if I was doing a lot of slow speed town riding.

I'm only saying what works for me, perhaps everyone isn't so lucky but I find my bikes do pretty well the same now as they did when they were new, ( I had one fifty years ago). My philosophy is 'if it ain't broke don't fix it which is certainly the case with the charging system, also why I haven't fitted an electronic ignition system either, that too works OK for me.

I'm certainly not blind to the CB/CLs many weak areas but don't think that includes the electrical system, far in front of most other bikes in the 60s and still adequate (for me) today.

[sarals]

Hi Vince!

Rick asked me to provide an original, complete, stator assembly so he could install his stator in the case. I bought one on eBay to use as a donor, but when it arrived it proved to be in (much) better condition than my original. So, I decided to use it with the high magnetism rotor, thinking the combination couldn't be any worse than what I had.

I had the time yesterday, so I installed the stator and the rotor, and put everything back together. I can't test it until the new retainer bolt for the rotor arrives.

I'm going to send the old stator assembly to Rick's sometime in the next month or two so he can put his stator in it. To be honest, I had such a time getting that right side muffler back on the bike (the three mounting holes are a b***h to get to line up), that I may drag my feet on taking the Old Girl apart again! ESPECIALLY if the charging system works better than it has been.

I'll keep you all informed!

[sarals]

DJM, thanks! Your opinion is appreciated, believe me. I didn't anticipate problems with the charging system on my bike when I restored it (I finished it what, two years ago now?), but I had low voltage from day one.

A little history is in order, here. I bought the Old Girl in 1973 and rode it for a couple of years essentially daily until the right cylinder seized. I parked it, and it stayed parked until a few years ago when I did the restoration on it. I kept the charging system intact, except for the selenium rectifier, which had seen better days, and the rotor, which was replaced with an identical rotor. It was replaced because the starter clutch had disintegrated and the rotor was ruined. I replaced the selenium rectifier with a regulator rectifier. I also went with an electronic ignition system. Believe it or not, all of the light bulbs are original, as are all of the switches and the wiring harness. The battery was replaced, of course, and it's a lead acid battery, not even a modern maintenance free battery. Since I finished the bike, I have never been able to get the charging system to deliver more than 12.8 volts to the battery. I removed the regulator rectifier (which has since been tested and is okay), and replaced it with a diode bridge. Still, no more than 12.8 volts has been seen at the battery. When riding, the battery slowly dies, and the bike is good for about an hour of riding with the lights off. With the lights on, twenty minutes is about I can do (and I'd MUCH prefer to ride it with the lights ON). Deduction points to the rotor, the magnetism is likely weak. I have tried to find out if it can be remagnetized, and I've no success with that. So, I decided to replace it with a high magnetism rotor, thinking that even if it was weak, it would probably be better than a weak low magnetism rotor. I discovered Rick's stators in the interim, and thought, that's even better, and with that and the regulator rectifier fitted on the bike, I'd have a modern, reliable charging system - and I could just go ride.

Until something else breaks.

So, that's the back story.

[sarals]

By the way, as an explanation - I've been on and off the forum sporadically over the last year because I have been training for a big race, which is next month. Some of you know that I am avid cyclist, as in bicycles, and I am a passionate bike racer. Last October I switched my focus to the velodrome (there are more masters women racing on the track than on the road), and I have been training for the UCI Masters Track Worlds which will be held at the velodrome in Carson, California next month. It's been quite a commitment, and it's a taken a toll! But, I'm looking forward to it.

When that's done, if the Old Girl is happy, I'll go put some miles on her.