Jensen
Thank you for providing the link. It's very informative.
I have been working with an American rail freight company and they will do anything to optimise their costs. Their bill for diesel fuel is over $1bn per year so great importance is placed on reducing friction. They want measured results to put into their business models. They spent over $500k just to find a suitable 'friction modifier' to reduce the losses between wheel and rail. The 'right' stuff is also quite expensive so they have to minimise its use which is where careful monitoring comes in handy.
I will re-read your thread again later and look forward to the on-going findings....
On the flip side and because most 'classic' motorcyclists tend to ride their bikes less and less, have you come across any information on the performance in terms of corrosion inhibition properties between mineral and synthetic oils?
I am working on bikes that have been in storage in humid conditions for 30-50 years. The condition is surprisingly good in some cases and not in others....
G
30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?
jensey, That's a remarkable thread and I understand your frustration with some of the postings it generated. As a scientist I like to see a bit of math and some observations to back up what is said. You don't see a lot of that in fora like this. The part I find most interesting is the washout of the centrifugal filter at low speed. You attribute this to the detergent (really the detergents and dispersants or D&D) in the oil but I wonder if the turbulence in the filter might be the cause. There are two reasons for this. The first is that the oil enters the filter without any angular momentum but the oil already there is spinning at various rates. The oil has a certain inertia and will be brought up to speed rather slowly with the formation of eddies that might be strong enough to pick up particles which were trapped by the filter, especially if the centrifugal force is weak. The second is that there are two types of particle that are generated by a running engine. The first is the soot (carbon mixed with products of incomplete combustion) that gets past the rings. These are soft particles which are further "milled" by the action of the engine parts such as the bearings and the gears. It is these that cause buildup of goo in engines running non-detergent oil. They are kept suspended by the D&D package and are removed by changing the oil. The other particles are metal that come from wear. They are much larger and are not suspended by the D&D. This is why they can be filtered by the filter (paper or centrifugal) while the soot remains in the oil and darkens it with use. Although I am a chemist by training, I am not a motor oil specialist so any comments, especially those backed up by test results, are welcome. Tim
Re: `"I was there in the early 60's when these type engines were issued by HONDA."
I was too. Oil cans were metal you opened them with a can opener or bought the fancy spout. Valvoline with blue top was ND, red top was D. Postal zip codes were coming in and zones were becoming a thing of the past. This didn't happen overnight but as time went on HONDA recommended MG DET so they made the $$$$ and from that time on any mention of oil type was MG DET. What is MG? Are you referring to the API rating? I can only find in the '65 12 manuals anything that starts with an M is ML and MS. Dick Johnson
'61 CB92 '63 domestic CL72 Type 2 '63 CL72 '65 CL77 '66 CB77 '67 CB450D '71 SL350 '71 XS1B
Re: `Probably a mistyping. At the time the recommendation was MS, DG or DM which are obsolete API service ratings.
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