What is the difference between a CA77 and a CA78Numbers....Here are my #s for what the title says is a 69 mod. Eng: CA77E10263XX....and Frame #: CA7810263XX....
In God we trust!.....Nothing like some breeze on the knees!
FWIW, my '63 CA78 has a CA77E318807 engine and CA78-313556 frame, which is outside of the numbers for '63 before they switched to the '64 higher series. That's still in the 5000 range between the two. Shocks have plastic covers, adjusters were regular, not star.
Edited: I didn't really have a question, just adding my 2 cents worth of serial numbers to the mix. Jerry
Last edited by jerrybb on Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jerry, not sure of your question. I have come across 2 other '63 CA78's with frame numbers that are even higher than yours (CA78 314430 and CA78 314517). Frame numbers as high as yours are not reflected in the Honda literature, but obviously they exist in the real world. Apparently it is just another shortcoming in the Honda literature, but I bet it makes life a pain when you are trying to buy parts. A 6-digit frame number beginning with "3" is a '63. In '64 there were type I (6-digit beginning with "1") and type II (6-digit beginning with "4"). All '64's and later are CA78. In '65 Honda went to the 7-digit frame numbers and continued to the end of production in '67. The '63 CA78's are unusual in that all 7 that I have come across have about 5,000 unit difference between frame and engine numbers. All CA77's up through the change to CA78 in mid-'63 and all '64 and later Dreams only had up to 200 units difference between frame and serial number. No one has an idea why Honda would go to the 5,000 unit difference, but with 7 confirmations and 0 to the contrary, the pattern seems to be established. If anyone has anything different, I hope they will submit a post to help eneryone out. CA77 had the early handlebars with star adjusters. As a CA78, your bike is correct with the later adjusters. I haven't been able to find any info on the plastic vs metal shock covers. My parts manuals show only one part number for the covers with the middle code of "250" which is for a C70. Anyone have any ideas on this one?
HONDA went to the plastic tops on the Super Hawk so I checked my info in hopes of finding a frame number that would sort of give a time line.
Well HONDA doesn't show that number for any of the plastic covers. Oh Well. ........lm
Shock CoversThanks for checking LM. I haven't run across anything in the literature for Dreams either and to confuse matters more, it seems like the plastic and metal rear shock covers were put on early and late Dreams at random. Anyone have anything that would help out here?
Engine and Frame numbers...I'm now finding out that the Dream that I just acquired from someone who sold it as "original" has probably had an engine replacement at some point. Not real happy about it, but the bike is super clean anyhow and I'm glad to have it in the garage.
I have a 1965 frame CA781004xxx but an engine number of CA77E-315562. None of the Honda literature I've seen even contemplates an engine number above 314xxx for 1963 and the next set of engine numbers don't even start with a 3 so I'm not sure exactly how to order parts for it. Time will tell. Ordering PartsCitizen Kane,
Generally, if you are ordering engine parts use your engine number. If you are ordering any other parts you will use your frame number. But you will need a parts manual (or two) to start the process of getting the right part for your bike/engine. Your engine is a 1963 (6-digit beginning with a 3). All years of 305 Dreams have CA77E engine numbers. The highest number I have seen for 1963 engine is CA77E 319658, though as you have found, the Parts Manuals don't show numbers even near that high. For some reason the 1963 (only) CA78's have about a 5,000 unit gap between the engine and frame numbers in stead of the normal about 200, so that 5,000 gap apparently resulted in even higher engine numbers. For most changes in engine parts, it will have happened in a different year and won't apply to your engine and the manuals will tell you exactly what you need. But, your task may get a little trickier for parts that were changed in 1963. Also watch for parts that the manuals indicate were changed at the beginning of the 1964 (I and II) production. There are issues with the Honda literature in that range. Measure everything and ask lots of questions. You will be able to figure things out as you will simply be choosing between an early or late part. Hopefully, you will be out riding and not wrenching so you will be meeting all those "Nicest People" and not pulling your hair out trying to buy correct parts. BTW, the Honda literature only recognizes the CA78 in a few places even though most 305 Dreams are CA78 and not CA77 models. The change from CA77 to CA78 took place in mid 1963. So, even though the manual might say "CA77" for your '65 frame, match the number for the part application and you should be fine.
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