This must be an OIL THREAD. Boy do they stoke up a blaze of opinions and interpretations.
I'm from another era when oils were oils. Almost any auto or M/C oil today is better than basically anything on the market in the sixties. I don't understand why diesel oils are getting so much loving on bike forums, but if it works, what the heck. Most oils in most bikes most of the time are more than adequate and cause no problems.
For years I ran all my bikes on GTX because it was the best oil and I never had any problems. Then I "learned better" and now I would never use the stuff, even though I never had any issues with it. Doesn't make much sense, but that's how we are. We can rationalize almost anything when we want to.
For break in I use whatever I lay my hands on in the shop and that's usually Honda oil which seems to work fine in our Hondas.
30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?I have read through threads and haven't come up with anything that shows what type of oil to use for break in. Most only share how they run the engine (some run it hard and go through heating/cooling cycles, some take it easy, some ride as usual). My experience with break-in of air cooled engines is to run strait mineral for the first 10 hours of operation running it at 75% rated power. The higher power setting forces the rings against the cylinder walls and the poor oil quality allows for the rings and cylinder to wear into each other. So you kinda want a little of that metal to metal wear on those parts. But those engines are a bit different. So I guess I can just stick with the knowledge that I have and run strait mineral for the first few hundred miles, changing it often.
use what others use as normal.
just put in delo break it , in then pray the syn oil dont cause tranny to go nuts many of the other big new bikes have TSBs that shows tranny gear damage using oils that do not protect it will (thin). (chipping and galling ,spalling ,etc) (my guess is cheap 5w-20 oils) the tranny has special needs. and is a compromise. they should of had separate sides running 1 oil, and 1 lube 90w. id read up on big bikes ( ones that share the oil) and see what brands, wreck gears.. (yamaha , Honda, Kawasaki) break-in Top multi-is, no API economy ring , rated for nasty diesels , Delo is good oil, there are others.. or top det. 30wt. (i have no examples) API rules: when i say, syn oil, i mean Group 4 oils. Mobil 1 is not. (in USA SYN means zero) many recommend blended, Gp 3 /4 oils, for motorcycles,. that tells me pure GP4 oils have issues here. my guess, the real GP4 part protects the top end and the Gp3 better protects the gears? the cylinders in all air cooled engine get real hot. way hotter than any water cooled block. i think the centrifugal filter is not even in the plan. just top end. bearings, and gears and how the oil performs these 2 things. motor cycle critical areas: top end rings to cyl walls. HOT HOT HOT. CAM lobes ( and lifters ) (i see fast wear from low mileage motors) Bearings , all gear teeth and dogs. (very unique in the world of motor oil application ) one thing in our favor all oils are mostly better. the base oil for sure. non of my comments ,apply to bike owners in, Alert , Nunavut, Canada. http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/cou ... ce/nuz.htm Temperatures inside an engine are basically the same if it's water cooled or air cooled. A big difference though is in external temperatures and heat soak effects. In other words the heat of combustion is the same, but the pathway to dump that heat is different.
On our air cooled race bikes we only once came close to to break down temperatures and yet the bike seems to be stinking hot and ready to melt. The oil temps and scans with a heat gun suggested that our finger tests were misleading. On the street unless you are riding in traffic in the desert with over advanced ignition and lean jetting, oil is rarely close to breakdown (the exception is long straight high speed runs when pistons stick). So a "good" oil is a plus but for running in, whatever you have will do - just no synthetics. Frequent oil changes and a clean filter are more important on these bikes than the latest and greatest chemical soup IMHO. not true
an airplane recp has at least some prop wash sitting at 10m-15m red light in Pheonix AZ, in 120F ambient , you have nothing, only fins. it gets real hot, way over any water cooled motor. if you need SAE , thermal plots of this i can link them. i was taking about the 1960 oils ! LOL (the book is talking 1960 so we read that and wonder) i dont but many do. for sure all oils today are vastly better. Hydra-cracked pure base Group 3 oils are fantastic compared the simple distilled oil of long ago. id expect only the transmission problems with top oils of today and infact many bike makers found problems with their transmission gears. dont let that IR gun fool you, it only snows the temperature of the top few atoms of aluminum. nothing more. measuring ring temps takes special set ups. my 2cents. Interesting response. Thanks for the insight. Ok so I slightly over simplified that answer.
What you are describing are the temperature gradients across teh cooling medium which are very different. And yes I understand the internal temps are way different to outside temps and the complexity fo temperature gradients through a piston which are really interesting. There are several SAE papers on that subject including some from Suzuki and Yamaha looking at compression ratio effects on heat and so on. Combustion temperatures are more or less the same in any engine and the variables are many, but bikes do quite well with air cooling as long as there is either radiation or convection to move the heat. In teh case of a CB77, fins are at 15 degrees which used to be regarded as the ideal angle to allow for convection heat transfer without seriously limiting air flow. The point you make though is valid that a stationary air cooled bike in summer heat can rise much more than in a similar bike with water cooling and a fan and that modern oils are way better than 60's oils. if reading SAE papers.
you have all the facts you need.! grin. but read about Harley rear cylinder over heating (a real worst case) they run the rear Richer too. just to keep it form melting. not just Harley, my Big Yamaha too. and others... Air cooled motors have many issues. yes, the CL77 has great fine area / displacement. ratio. My YZ400 , came out of the crate with piston slap. (as did 3 friends) when warm , not. so engineering varies by generation, today we can make pistons that don't do that. my only point (too many variables really) is that in 1966 they had real worries. about oil. and today those issues are mostly gone , but today there is a wider selection of oils, vastly more making a bad choice is all to easy. a totally different situation. and i empathize with people pondering this. do use deterrent oil do break it in with Dino Group 3 , best in class.
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