30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?
It's all going a bit ping-pong (wrong!) in this thread.....
Most of us here share our experiences, sometimes irrespective of relevance to the question but, nevertheless, the experience is shared. Occasionally another member may recall a similar experience with a product or method, which is also shared; the similarity allows each of us to draw a conclusion and to decide whether or not to adopt a change of practise. In this way we all learn from others', as well as our own, methods. A light-hearted injection of humour when debates are getting a bit serious, I've always found, is a good platform for remembering information; I always learned more from (and, thus, respected) tutors, lecturers and professionals who incorporated an element of humour within their style of imparting knowledge. Also, I have found the same style of passing accrued knowledge and experience on to lads (and lasses) in my daily professional/vocational life usually results in that particular nugget of knowledge being retained by them. So Chico, Gun and others, please don't beat yourself up over a humourous interjection; at the appropriate moment it's usually welcomed. None of us here is a university academic. This is a level playing field upon which we 'kick the ball about' and share in the fun of our historic machinery. And those who aren't here to share and/or learn will soon fall by the wayside and drop out of the team. Everybody has a gemstone or two to contribute; and contribute they must because knowledge is a precious -- and ailing -- commodity. Within the scope of historic Hondas, we are, between us, painting a huge picture from which others as well as ourselves might benefit, now and in the future. So, please, let's keep up that combined artistry! The history and technical experience could eventually disappear without trace, and that would be a tragedy. Finally, I am compelled to agree with Vince that the CB/CL motor, at least, is a performance machine, and was possibly the first of a new breed and of its kind; any motor that revs to 9K rpm (and beyond) and lasts this long must be! It might not be a high performance machine, by today's standards, but without it the m/cs of today would probably be very different and extremely boring by comparison. On a personal note: I am learning a great deal more about my CB from a) riding, tinkering and treating it properly [which I didn't when I was 16!] and b) from the vast experience and ability here on this forum. I try to pay back by using what I know, what I learn and what I try out. So, on with the painting.........
Wow.. you argue that since its old, it cant benefit from new oil. That the engine was not designed to run on new oil. That you dont understand better. Well.. first off the engine is over head cam... That feature alone made 30wt no longer acceptable. The engine runs 10,000 rpms.. Again 30 wt did not prove to lubicate correctly and engines had to be overhauled at 7000 to 10,000 miles were totally worn out on the rod ends, piston scuffing destroyed the cylenders.. so new rods. bore, new pistons were needed. Honda built the engine not based on what oil was out there but on what he could get the engine to do. In the 70s gm built cars that had a rash of cam failures. They simply reformulated the oils to test for cold start up damage and how much the of the oil film stayed up from being run previously. This was added as a API test and all NEW oils have to meet this test. Volkswagen had trouble with cam followers in the 80s that failed rapidly. more so than other engines. A new test was delvelop and the worse engine was pick to test with, so the API cam follower wear test is now a part of our oils. You ingnorance is bliss... There are about 43 test based on different wear and problems that fixed in improved oils. Piston scuffing, valve deposits, piston ring coking, 4 ball wear test for high heat and friction. You sit there with no arguement except for a 1959 casting note from when there were NO other oils made, and thats your argument against gravity? As to the 77 being a lawnmower.. Lawnmowers never have the oil change, dont have overhead cams and only run at 3600 rpms and are thrown away at 300 hours and are so worn out, that its not economical to repair them. Using the correct modern oils you can get 50,000 out of a small bike today. Most of which do not have an oil filter as the modern oil will suspend the particles and remove them during common oil changes. The old oil did not.. And yes, thats an API test. If your from europe, then go the the acep oil tests,, if your in asia, go to the jasso tests. Funny how all these tests are almost identical. They even reference each other on some tests. Did you know that a modern hd oil has to give you a minimum of 3% more fuel economy over a 30wt oil. However it usually is 5% in testing. Viscosity change. A modern hd oil cannot thicken up in x number of hours of testing as opposed to a 30wt oil. Volitility test. A modern hd oil cannot break down and vent out the crank case and loose volume like a 30wt oil does. Under high rpms, it can vaporize and get spit out the breather. Guess the 305 does not do high rpms?? in 68 honda noticed high cam wear on the early 450 model due to the high pressures on the cam, and cam followers and warn about using 30wt as to causeing early wear. Seems the 30wt was getting to the cam and followers quickly enough and could not offer extreame wear that the zdp additives do. Arent you glad your lawnmower does not have an overhead cam???????????????????????????? Again. you cant argue with emotion. Run what ever you want. Hell run water. Others can only present documented facts and science. Keep burning the witches. Lets do a Spanish inquisition and torture a couple of pistons and a cam shafts. Had a neighbor take all of his tools out of his garage the other day. He lined them up on both sides of his drive way. Then he pull out his weedeater and proceeded to beat the crap out of it! He threw it down! He jumped on the shaft and bent it! He grabbed it like a bat and swung the engine into the concrete! He beat it into many pieces! He totally destroyed it! I was horrified and in shock. A couple hours after he cooled down a bit, I asked him what was going on?. He replied that since his weed eater would not start, he made all the other tools watch him punish the weed eater so that they would behave properly. I really wanted to read that post softx i really did. but i didn't.
I got a little into it and I saw that you weren't seeing my actual stance at all, and further reading would only aggravate me and cause me to post something aggravating back. Lets just agree that we meaure "better" by different standards when it comes to these bikes. '65 CB77
'66 CB450k0 '93 HD FXR
I want to put my 2 cents worth on this thread and say how up-set I am of people putting down one of my favorite (next to motorcycles) modes of transportation; namely the lowly lawn mower (well at least the lawn tractor type). I have spent many relaxing hours at the wheel of my dependable lawn tractor a 16hp kohler craftsman mowing my large lawn out here in the country of oregons coast where we mow about half the year. the kohler is a '96 with untold amounts of hours mowing plus I use it to pull trailers and brush around the place. It has overhead valves, electronic ignition, spin-on oil filter and a two stage air cleaner. It will charge over 6amps and some times I use it to charge up dead trucks. The oil kohler calls for is kohler 10W-30 or kohler SAE-30; link:
http://www.kohlerengines.com/accessories/kohlerOil.htm Which both are hd oils, so you see lawn mowers are modern and should get more respect! I am just kidding;-) Clarence
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
