30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?

[Vince Lupo]

I think John's reply spoke more of using a multigrade detergent oil, as opposed to a monograde non-detergent oil, rather than specifically using his brand. I've always been using 30w non-detergent (that's what the engine says!), but his well informed reply has me reconsidering that choice....

Just noticed that the advice from Silkolene is exactly the opposite of what the folks at Castrol told me in an earlier post. Hmm....the plot thickens!

[sotxbill]

Not to contribute even more confusion, but a few months ago I called Castrol directly and asked them which oil I should be using for my CB77. They said 30w non-detergent. So, I'm not sure if the oil manufacturers know their products and their proper application, but I'm assuming that they would.

I've also agreed with those who believe that the centrifugal oil filter will not be able to do its job if you're using detergent oil (I'm no mechanic, though!). If you use detergent oil, and go to change your oil after 1000 miles and discover that the oil filter is sparkling clean, shouldn't you be concerned?

As an aside, is there such a thing as a non-detergent, multi-grade oil?

my 305 owners manal calls for a high grade multi weight detergent oil.. so whats up with that?? Did my repro manual have a misprint??

[LOUD MOUSE]

AND THE DATE OF PRINT ON THE BACK IS?. .............lm

Not to contribute even more confusion, but a few months ago I called Castrol directly and asked them which oil I should be using for my CB77. They said 30w non-detergent. So, I'm not sure if the oil manufacturers know their products and their proper application, but I'm assuming that they would.

I've also agreed with those who believe that the centrifugal oil filter will not be able to do its job if you're using detergent oil (I'm no mechanic, though!). If you use detergent oil, and go to change your oil after 1000 miles and discover that the oil filter is sparkling clean, shouldn't you be concerned?

As an aside, is there such a thing as a non-detergent, multi-grade oil?

my 305 owners manal calls for a high grade multi weight detergent oil.. so whats up with that?? Did my repro manual have a misprint??

[leonvjames]

I have used an aircraft oil, W80 grade in my CB77 for the last 30 years, changing it every 1000 miles.
As 67305 DREAM said from his experience on Lycoming engines and my experience of the oil being used in Bell Sioux helicopter engines and gearboxes, I thought it was fine for my bikes. I used to replace the crankshaft at 30.000 miles due to bearings wearing out and since the oil change the current crank has lasted 40.000miles plus although it it is not used as often and hard as it was then. I also came across a web site, All about oils, and he has done a lot of research into diesel oils and has some interesting observations to make. I have changed my CX500 onto DELO oil but have only done 15.00kms so I can't comment yet. There has been no problems yet. Modern oils would be the way to go
Leon, long time owner

[sotxbill]

cummins fleet guard has a lot of interesting oil filter documentation. For diesels that get a million miles between overhauls, they build a 3 stage filter. One stage is normal filter, one stage is designed to trap moisture and the last stage is a centrifical filter that spins the oil to get the soot to clump and stick in the filter. Soot is a microscopic particle that can not be filter in the normal sense, but the centrifical filter will make it clump and fall out of the oil. Some filters are even 4 stage with a extra fine filter that will bypass when its full. Amsoil also has 2 stage filter or better, but I'm not a amsoil person.

So yes,, even in detergent oils, a centrifical oil filter will spin out particles and make them clump or stick to the side of the spinning filter.


Bill Silvers recomends a hd multi weight oil in the restoration book that I have. Most 30 weight non-detergents oils are the cheapest oil you can get and are usually group 2 base oils. The have zero additives and are most likly to breakdown, thicken up under hd use. As these oils are used, the light portion boils off in fumes and leaves the waxy parts to burn up the engine. If you run 30 weight, you better change you oil often as you have no protection built in.
HD oils have combo bases of group 3 and group 4 oils, with robust additives like extreme wear additives, anti-foaming additives and detergents to keep sludge from forming. All of the hd attributes are needed especially in air cooled engines. The ultra refined base oils do not change thickness as they wear. They do not boil off and out the vent tube especially where there is a lot of air movement in the crank case like on the diesel versions or maybe an ultra high rpm engine like a motorcycle. The zdp additives only come into play where there is exteme heat and then they actually bond to the ultra hot areas to form a boundry lubricaton area. Non-detergent oils simply have no high heat or high wear protection.

I really dont know why anyone would go by an old spec that was stated when hd oils did not exist and had not been invented yet. a spec that was issued back when car engines would only last for 60,000 miles between overhauls.

[LOUD MOUSE]

Because I've always used it with GOOD RESULTS and never a problem as you state.
I reply when asked by others what oil I use and I answer "30W ND and if they/you don't use it I don't care one small bit. ............lm

<<<<<<<<<<<I really don't know why anyone would go by an old spec that was stated when hd oils did not exist and had not been invented yet. a spec that was issued back when car engines would only last for 60,000 miles between overhauls.>>>>>>>>

cummins fleet guard has a lot of interesting oil filter documentation. For diesels that get a million miles between overhauls, they build a 3 stage filter. One stage is normal filter, one stage is designed to trap moisture and the last stage is a centrifical filter that spins the oil to get the soot to clump and stick in the filter. Soot is a microscopic particle that can not be filter in the normal sense, but the centrifical filter will make it clump and fall out of the oil. Some filters are even 4 stage with a extra fine filter that will bypass when its full. Amsoil also has 2 stage filter or better, but I'm not a amsoil person.

So yes,, even in detergent oils, a centrifical oil filter will spin out particles and make them clump or stick to the side of the spinning filter.


Bill Silvers recomends a hd multi weight oil in the restoration book that I have. Most 30 weight non-detergents oils are the cheapest oil you can get and are usually group 2 base oils. The have zero additives and are most likly to breakdown, thicken up under hd use. As these oils are used, the light portion boils off in fumes and leaves the waxy parts to burn up the engine. If you run 30 weight, you better change you oil often as you have no protection built in.
HD oils have combo bases of group 3 and group 4 oils, with robust additives like extreme wear additives, anti-foaming additives and detergents to keep sludge from forming. All of the hd attributes are needed especially in air cooled engines. The ultra refined base oils do not change thickness as they wear. They do not boil off and out the vent tube especially where there is a lot of air movement in the crank case like on the diesel versions or maybe an ultra high rpm engine like a motorcycle. The zdp additives only come into play where there is exteme heat and then they actually bond to the ultra hot areas to form a boundry lubricaton area. Non-detergent oils simply have no high heat or high wear protection.

I really dont know why anyone would go by an old spec that was stated when hd oils did not exist and had not been invented yet. a spec that was issued back when car engines would only last for 60,000 miles between overhauls.

[sotxbill]

LM, your not concerned about the viscosity changes and the shearing of the molecules with the lowest grade of oil made?

btw,, do any of the modern motorcycles recommend 30wt non detergent oils?


the old model t restorers have to make the original transmission oil for their model T's as its no-longer made. At least the ones who insist on the original.

Because I've always used it with GOOD RESULTS and never a problem as you state.
I reply when asked by others what oil I use and I answer "30W ND and if they/you don't use it I don't care one small bit. ............lm

<<<<<<<<<<<I really don't know why anyone would go by an old spec that was stated when hd oils did not exist and had not been invented yet. a spec that was issued back when car engines would only last for 60,000 miles between overhauls.>>>>>>>>

cummins fleet guard has a lot of interesting oil filter documentation. For diesels that get a million miles between overhauls, they build a 3 stage filter. One stage is normal filter, one stage is designed to trap moisture and the last stage is a centrifical filter that spins the oil to get the soot to clump and stick in the filter. Soot is a microscopic particle that can not be filter in the normal sense, but the centrifical filter will make it clump and fall out of the oil. Some filters are even 4 stage with a extra fine filter that will bypass when its full. Amsoil also has 2 stage filter or better, but I'm not a amsoil person.

So yes,, even in detergent oils, a centrifical oil filter will spin out particles and make them clump or stick to the side of the spinning filter.


Bill Silvers recomends a hd multi weight oil in the restoration book that I have. Most 30 weight non-detergents oils are the cheapest oil you can get and are usually group 2 base oils. The have zero additives and are most likly to breakdown, thicken up under hd use. As these oils are used, the light portion boils off in fumes and leaves the waxy parts to burn up the engine. If you run 30 weight, you better change you oil often as you have no protection built in.
HD oils have combo bases of group 3 and group 4 oils, with robust additives like extreme wear additives, anti-foaming additives and detergents to keep sludge from forming. All of the hd attributes are needed especially in air cooled engines. The ultra refined base oils do not change thickness as they wear. They do not boil off and out the vent tube especially where there is a lot of air movement in the crank case like on the diesel versions or maybe an ultra high rpm engine like a motorcycle. The zdp additives only come into play where there is exteme heat and then they actually bond to the ultra hot areas to form a boundry lubricaton area. Non-detergent oils simply have no high heat or high wear protection.

I really dont know why anyone would go by an old spec that was stated when hd oils did not exist and had not been invented yet. a spec that was issued back when car engines would only last for 60,000 miles between overhauls.