30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?

67305dream · Post by **67305dream** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:30 am

My opinion. I believe the best option is to run one of the BLENDS. They mix standard oil with synthetic. Here is the reasoning. Since air cooled engines run hotter than water cooled engines, it is more important to have an oil that will not brake down under high temperature conditions. Synthetic oils stand up to high temperatures better than standard oils, BUT synthetics do not have very good cushioning properties. You can actually hear the difference when running pure synthetic VS. pure standard oil in the same engine. The engine will be much quieter with standard oil. I know this is true, I’ve experienced it myself. This makes the BLENDS a better choice because you get the best of both worlds. An oil that both cushions well and stands up to the higher temperatures. As for detergent, why would you want to allow sludge to build up? I use detergent oil. Just so you know that I’m not totally ignorant, I used to rebuild Lycoming air craft engines, and they are air cooled. Granted, all of this is an OPINION arrived at by experience. I would love to hear from you all. Actually, if you plan to put a lot of miles on your bike, this is a good discussion.

sotxbill · Post by **sotxbill** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:11 pm

better detergent oils keep the dirt and soot suspended. and some think this increases wear.

I think this is a big argument. as to the wet clutch, the jaso motorcycle standard dispells this myth as the wet clutch is a part of the jaso specification. chevron has issued letters saying the delo 15w-40 and 5w-40 hd oils meet jaso.. they both are high detergent oils and high additive oils.. I thought this might be a good place to start..

Then there's the rotella, and delvac hd oils as well by shell and mobile..

Any comments on all japanese motorcyles recommending jaso rated oils for motorcycles??

Any experience is welcome..

I can remember in the 60s we ran mobile oil in our hondas and had trouble with the excessive foaming and the oil breaking down as an result. Today thats actually a factor thats taken into account on modern hd motor oils..

so why in the world would I run a plan oil base with no additives.. thats asking for trouble, thats asking for the high wear that we had in the 60s where an car engine lasted 60,000 miles between overhauls. Motorcycles lasted 10,000 miles. Is there a better oil than we ran in 1965??

Vince Lupo · Post by **Vince Lupo** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:59 am

Not to contribute even more confusion, but a few months ago I called Castrol directly and asked them which oil I should be using for my CB77. They said 30w non-detergent. So, I'm not sure if the oil manufacturers know their products and their proper application, but I'm assuming that they would.

I've also agreed with those who believe that the centrifugal oil filter will not be able to do its job if you're using detergent oil (I'm no mechanic, though!). If you use detergent oil, and go to change your oil after 1000 miles and discover that the oil filter is sparkling clean, shouldn't you be concerned?

As an aside, is there such a thing as a non-detergent, multi-grade oil?

Superchicken · Post by **Superchicken** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:44 am

A non-detergent, with good sheer protection, would be ideal. I also have a concern for my XR200R, as it has no paper filter, as well. I wonder if the CB oiling system would like having a small spin-on filter, put against it.

deaddog · Post by **deaddog** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:41 pm

Superchicken wrote:I wonder if the CB oiling system would like having a small spin-on filter, put against it.

Suicide for a 305. Oil pressure is almost nil and would not be able to push through filter. I am curious why the thought to change oil type. Are you guys getting lots of engine wear? Change the oil and clean the filter every 1000 miles and you are not going to see engine problems due to oil type causing wear.

Vince Lupo · Post by **Vince Lupo** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:37 am

I just read an article in Classic Bike Magazine about oil, and what kind to use for vintage bikes. As I didn't see any reference to 1960's Japanese bikes, I e-mailed John Rowland with the R&D Department at Silkolene (he was a consultant for this article).

Here is his response to me, and you can make your own decisions:

"I have always believed that using modern oils in older machinery is entirely beneficial. In air cooled engines with low-output oil pumps it is better to avoid low viscosity grades, but the modern antioxidants and anti-wear compounds together with dispersancy and detergency ‘built-in’ to modern lubricants prolong the life of both older and modern engines. I’m afraid there’s no such thing as a multigrade non-detergent oil…thank goodness! With detergent/dispersant oils (which were around in 1956, and very much accepted and appreciated by 1966) carbon particles are suspended in harmless microscopic form, and are NOT removed by oil filters, normal or centrifugal. Oil filters are just ‘bolt stoppers’. They remove relatively large particles. That is their job.
Unfortunately, many people think that ‘monograde’ oil is ‘straight’, i.e. non-detergent, but completely non-detergent straight oils were rare even in 1966. I find it hard to believe that Honda would have made life difficult for both their engines and their customers by recommending 1930s technology. (I use a full detergent and all the rest monograde 40, Titan TXE 40, in a 1934 Matchless 1000cc V-twin, and it’s still OK after 60,000 miles since the last rebore and new pistons! I also cover about 2500-3000miles per year. On dreadful 1930s oil these engines and most others were ready for a total overhaul at 20,000.) My 1963 ‘A-Series’ engine in a 1960 Sprite, outside the lab right now, runs on Pro-4 15W/50, and is all the better for it!
So, I recommend Pro-4 15W/50, or Comp-4 20W/50 for your Honda. Both of these oils are widely used in recent (post-1950) classics."

bfd402 · Post by **bfd402** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:36 am

My 305 experience is limited to the track and not the road so take it for what it's worth...

I have been running full synthetic in my CL175 road racer due to the extreme heat generated, mineral oils didn't last. i was changing it every 2 race weekends or so. I tried Silkolene as some others really liked it and it didn't work so well for me. Hard to seperate the clutch plates when it was cold before the first bump start and the clutch was really grabby. I have had great success with Repsol though. It looks and smells like regular mineral and stands up to the abuse very well. Brought the clutch modulation back too. I've started using their semi synthetic in my street bike. My 305 race bike gets the full synthetic. I change the oil on both frequently and clean the filter every other oil change and so far so good!
* no disrespect meant towards Silkolene products- they just didn't work for me in this application