Gun,
If you want to make your point in the oil debate please try to do it with technical information, experiments, facts, calculations or experience, other then comparing a engine of a CB72 with a VCR's, and modern oil with a DVD.
A few people are trying to make a difference getting this thread on a level where information, arguments, facts, calculations, experiments and knowledge instead of believe or non-founded disagreements are creating a basis for discussion and (technical) understanding.
And if 30W ND works better in this type of engine, please feel free to give arguments based on facts from mechanical, material, chemical or functional points of view, because that is where it's all about.
Jensen
30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?
Hi steve,
Nice and clear article, but there's one point not mentioned, and that is that an oil with a lower index will not stick to a surface as good as a oil with a higher index. That means that if you're not starting an engine for a long time, the surfaces (like a camshaft) in an engine lubricated with a an oil with a low index will be less protected when started then when lubricated with a high index. On the other hand the oil with a low index will reach this surface earlier. The main reason for engine wear is that the oil layer (film) is not closed completely between two moving surfaces so the metal from both surfaces touch, this happens especially when the engine is cold started. jensen assembly of Japanese motorcycles requires great peace of mind (Pirsig)
my argument is that the engine was built with this oil in mind.
not with new oils that didn't exist yet in mind. I'm sure the technical benefits the modern oil is superior, but what we do have is 45+ years of these engines running flawlessly on the oil they were designed to run with. what we dont have is 45+ years of these engines running flawlessly on the new oil that they weren't designed for. I'm not saying the new oil will hurt the engine. We have no evidence or reason to believe that at all. But with 45+ years on an engine and it's running 100% fine... then I'm going to say we have no reason at all to believe that the non detergent oil will hurt the engine either. so... you can spend more money on a different oil that looks good on paper and in machines that are designed for it but does not have the time tested assurance... or you can spend less money on the oil the engine was designed to run, that is time tested with no problems... it's up to YOU. but my original 'metaphor' said perfectly what i wanted to say. It doesn't take a seasoned chef to tell you when meat has spoiled. i dont know much about oil, and I appreciate this thread, but this isn't rocket science. It's a pretty simple little engine that was designed very well to run on 'lawn mower' oil, and boy does it run well. '65 CB77
'66 CB450k0 '93 HD FXR I also didn't tell anyone else what to 'put in their VCR'.
I said what i wasn't going to put in mine. I wont be spending extra money on oil to put in an engine that runs just fine on the oil that has been put in it for over 4 decades. If i wanted a performance machine i'd be on the back of a vmax, not on a 1960's honda. if we are going to take this arguement of performance to the very end, then why don't we just change out our wheels? drum brakes are sooooooo archaic. why don't we pop a fuel injector on there... one can go on and on and on about the benefits of fuel injection over carbs. why dont we add new LED lights? a new air horn to replace the old one. get rid of the kick start. add digital gauges that monitor every fluid and temp? hell, i currently have NOTHING monitoring my exhaust temp... how will i know how lean i should be running? In my opinion, these bikes are DANDY the way there were made. and oil, in my opinion, is part of that. as is the old gauge, the drum brakes, the carbs, the air cooling, etc... somethings I will change because I personally find the pros of changing them to be greater than the cons. I will be replacing the tail light with a form fitting one and relocating my license plate. do i think everyone should? nope. and i'm not going to argue that my way is best. my way is just what i personally want to do. so for you to suggest that me that sharing my way is somehow detrimental to the progression of knowledge is not only illogical, but also a tad bit disheartening. '65 CB77
'66 CB450k0 '93 HD FXR
I don't seem to be able to buy SAE30 oil here in Spain; Shell's Tellus 32 & 46 hydraulic oils: yes. But I can buy Castrol ActEvo, and I don't mind paying a bit extra for quality; and that applies to most things I buy (unless it happens to be an overpriced Sony Vaio or a mother-f'ing motherboard-failing HP Pavilion, but let's not go there.....) I think, after so many Isle of Man TT races for so many decades with bikes lubed by Castrol R, their products are pretty trustworthy. Why don't I use R? Well, I probably would really struggle to get that here too, it canNOT be topped up with anything else and must be flushed out with a solvent flushing agent before changing back to a conventional oil. It would smell damned good though!
The title of this tread : 30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?
Initiator : Sparget Reason to start this thread : I've read on here that everyone recommends the 30W Non-detergent oil. But is there another recommendation that might be better but cost a tad more? I'm not worried about the extra investment. Any thoughts on synthetic? Thanks! I put in my contribution trying to answer the question as good as possible. Like I said, I’m not a preacher, and I don’t want to say what others should use, that’s not the question of sparget. I tried to answer the question from an technical way, but any well based suggestions other then the answer No, there is no better then 30W Non detergent seems to be a wrong answer. Gun, I didn’t want to say that you cannot give your opinion, I only asked to give an opinion with technical backup, because of the question of sparget above. I’m sorry trying to answer the question of Sparget, and if you feel hurt I'm sorry for that too. Jensen assembly of Japanese motorcycles requires great peace of mind (Pirsig)
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