30W Non-detergent - Or is there something better?

Snakeoil · Post by **Snakeoil** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:28 pm

Went out to buy oil today. I was planning on going with the Rotella 10W30 syn oil. I took the time to read the label and rating on that oil as well as the Rotella T 15W-40. The syn oil does not say anything about meeting JASO MA specs. The Rotella T does. Neither carry the JASO label. The Rotella T says it meets their spec, along with a long list of other specs and standards in that section.

Since I ran Rotella T last year and still had about a quart left, I went with the Rotella T again.

Davo said he runs the syn oil in his SuperHawk with no problem. I'll probably switch over after I rebuild and break in the engine one of these days.

regards,
Rob

brewsky · Post by **brewsky** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:32 am

Rob,

The Rotella T-6 5W-40 is a full syn shown as MA rated

The Rotella T-5 10w-30 is listed as a semi-syn and is shown as MB rated (not for wet clutches)

The Triple protection 15W-40 is rated MB

None of the other Rotella oils show a MA or MB rating, so as long as they don't say "energy conserving" on the label they should be ok, as generally that means a friction modifier has been added which MAY affect clutch operation.

I understand Shell completely revamped their oil lineup in 2009, so what used to be available is not necessarily the same as what is available today.

Many people swear by Rotella, but I wouldn't use any "energy conserving" oil of any brand.

Snakeoil · Post by **Snakeoil** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:14 am

brewsky wrote:Rob,
The Rotella T-6 5W-40 is a full syn shown as MA rated
The Rotella T-5 10w-30 is listed as a semi-syn and is shown as MB rated (not for wet clutches)
The Triple protection 15W-40 is rated MB
None of the other Rotella oils show a MA or MB rating, so as long as they don't say "energy conserving" on the label they should be ok, as generally that means a friction modifier has been added which MAY affect clutch operation.
I understand Shell completely revamped their oil lineup in 2009, so what used to be available is not necessarily the same as what is available today.
Many people swear by Rotella, but I wouldn't use any "energy conserving" oil of any brand.

Brewsky,

I think you are confusing MB specs with a JASO MB rating. They are not the same. Rotella T 15W-40 has on it's label, in addtion to several other specs, MB 228.31. The MB in this case stands for Mercedes-Benz and is one of their diesel specs. That same label also says JASO MA, which is the correct JASO rating for motorcycle use. I've attached a pic of the Rotella T label here.

The T-5 has a similar label and also meets the same MB spec. But, there is no mention of meeting the JASO spec which is why I left it on the shelf. There was no 5W-40 there.

I was a bit confused at teh store because I had thought that the JASO MA rated syn was 5W-40 bit all I found was 10W-30 and without a JASO MA rating. It only has the JASO DH-2 rating. At the time, I thought that perhaps somebody had miss-typed it or I was not remembering correctly. Appreciate the clarification on that point.

Here is the link to the Rotella website listing their products. If you click on the icons, it will bring up the spec for each oil. http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?sit ... _home.html

On this site you will also see that the Rotella T Triple Protection and the T6 5W-40 are both JASO MA rated.
regards,
Rob

brewsky · Post by **brewsky** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:50 pm

Rob,
I was flipping back and forth between the Rotella link you mentioned when I was typing my post.

It is indeed very easy to get confused between the JASO MB, and plain MB language....which I did.

The difference between a comma and a semi-colon is all it takes!

I have read so many oil articles and test reports I am now to the point of information overload!

I had a transmission recall on my Ranger auto pickup......it amounted to adding an oz of "friction modifier" to the fill tube.

I had a Firebird with limited slip differential that, at 3000 miles, began sounding like it was disintegrating every time I went around a curve........the cure?........an oz of "friction modifier"

As you noted, I think it is best to read the bottle for the best info, and I've boiled it down to the following:

If it says "energy conserving".......don't use it

If it says "JASO MB".......don't use it

If it says "JASO MA, or JASO MA2 ........can definitely use it

If it doesn't say JASO anything, and doesn't say "energy conserving".....its probably OK.

The best oil I found for my Gold Wing was Mobile 1 15w-50, then called "red cap" (not JASO, not energy conserving, just full syn car oil). It was the only oil that seemed to help smooth the wing's notorious 1st-2nd shifting issues. But it has now been "re-formulated". So I then went to Mobile 1 MXT ful syn (JASO MA), and it is now worse than with original Honda dino oil!

Some label examples, from what was laying around the garage:

Snakeoil · Post by **Snakeoil** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:01 pm

Brewsky,

Yeah the whole oil think is not unlike the various machine threads between US, Japanese and British standards. Sure would be nice if we could just settle on one and be done with it.

Mobil 1 has a version called V-Twin and I first saw it in Walmart many years ago. They have since stopped selling it. For grins I just went to their site to see if they still make it. They do along with another bike oil. Here's the link. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... aspx#FAQs3

Note that the 10W-40 is for sport bikes, which are all water cooled.

regards,
Rob

CL77NOW · Post by **CL77NOW** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:38 am

my 2 cents (mech ,yes, retired but not oil engineer.

first off, don't read anything on water cooled engines.
Good luck with Googling, Syn makers pay for first 10,000 hits. (jerks !)
the top end oiling can cause the additives to break down at such high temps. as do (did) mulitVIs VI improver's.
this is why non detergent is used. The detergent does not cause the filter to fail they work together.

the centrifugal filter is for removing object with mass, dirt, metal. dust, sand.etc.
and is not for removing by products of combustion.
Modern detergents do not work anything, like in 1965. "black and white"

The products of combustion are for the Additives to handle.
so you have 2 choices, sludge and 1000 mile oil changes. and rapid base oil damage.
or
using modern oils certified for air cooled engines. is an other choice. Delo 15w-40 can do that.

The oil must be good for the gear box. (many are not)
the oil must be good for top end lub. at full temps.
the oil must not cause clutch to slip, ( i think this is mainly worry or bad clutches?)
The best oil (i can say what) is a detergent oil.
which one , we will never find because , no miles driven.
54k bikes in usa, and what is total mileage? per year 2011, there will be no data.
but this post is tops , on the possibilities.

Areoshell 15-50 (air cooled , recip engines, like Continental O-200 equipped Cessna
not sure how tranny will like it , it is a syn/mix.
if drive a MC in cold weather so cold the oil is too thick, on an antique bike? they you need special help.
most bikes are fair weather driven (not in texas, but usa wide avg)

id run straight weight detergent. ( with great respect of my gear box)
or
DELO 15w-40 (read about it,with care.)

read all mc comments below (control +F) "motorcycle"
one of the best no hype pages on topic.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:53 am

Hate to just but in here but I am about a week away from completion of a restoration with a complete engine rebuild. I plan on running a synthetic after break-in. But my question is, what type of oil should I use for break in if I plan on running synthetic for the life of the engine. I almost bought a strait mineral 30wt the other day for break-in but figured I should run it by you guys. So what do you think?

Thanks, Jethro