Fresh meat!

[Loudo]

Okay...I've been gathering more parts and preparing for carb maintenance and setting the timing, also replacing the oil seal at the shift lever. I happened to find myself next door to a NAPA retailer today and asked if they had any non-detergent oil. He said "Yep" and I bought four quarts. I note the following on the back of the oil cartons: "Caution - This oil is rated API SB and is not suitable for use in most gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1963. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm."

I guess I feel lucky they still carry this product at all.

Also got new NGK spark plugs at $2.18 apiece. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Spent a little time rigging up a bulb/wires/alligator clips timing light so I can attempt Ed Moore's tune-up as described in this forum's FAQ. This McGyver contraption I came up with is not pretty but seems to work.

Anyway, I got to work on that oil seal. Removed the shift linkage and began teasing the bracket off the splined shaft. It gave quite a bit of resistance but after I muttered some vaguely threatening stuff off it came. The old seal didn't want to pop right out, but I suppose I don't want something that holds back the engine oil to just be flopping around there. This seal is sort of a hard rubber, or something I would describe as halfway between rubber and hard plastic. I didn't want to just start banging away with sharp objects as I didn't know what was around and behind the seal, so I started by trying to slip an Exacto knife blade between the seal and engine case to free it up some. This was somewhat successful, and I noted the presence of a tiny thread of red rubberlike compound while doing this. Was this seal installed with some gasket sealant?

Which brings up my question: When installing the new oil seal, should I make use of a small amount of gasket sealant around the outside of the seal?

Anyhoo, I was finally successful getting the old seal out with a screwdriver. No big deal it turns out.

I finally got my official shop manual...there is a bunch of nice stuff in there, but not nearly as much detail on procedures as I expected from a shop manual. I suppose it was written for folks who already know how to repair motorcycles and just need to know specific stuff about these bikes.

A close inspection of the bike where the black paint has chipped off and areas where a not-perfect job of masking took place reveals this bike was originally blue, about the color of the blue band on this page with the titles "Author" and "Message."

[Hahnda]

No to sealant on the new seal.

For a quick course on motorcycle repair check out
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm

[Loudo]

I've been puzzling over the correct way to install this oil seal at the shift lever and I finally got tired of thinking about it and just went for it. The hole was nice and clean and I decided to apply a very small amount of light lubricating oil on the seal perimeter as I feared friction was going to hang me up. I used a 17mm socket which is exactly the size of the seal for a cushion block. I tapped it in with a small dead-blow hammer and thought I was doing OK, but after it was about halfway in I looked at the bottom of the seal and saw that the seal edge had caught and I had managed to derf it up. Consarnit! There was no stopping now...any attempt to remove it and assess the damage or start over was impossible. These things are REALLY tight. I cut off the thin lip of the seal that was now mashed flat against the opening and managed to tap it in the rest of the way, but I fear it might leak. Or it might not. If it leaks, I'll just do it again and hope I've learned something. Has anybody out there replaced this seal with success and able to offer advice?

Based on previous experience, this stuff is gonna happen. You can only read about stuff so much, and believe me I've read most of what's out there, but the only way to really learn about these bikes is to take the damn things apart and put them back together, mistakes and all.

Stripped the carbs and sprayed them down real good with carb cleaner, shined up the float bowls and needles and whatnot the best I could. removed the choke parts and shined them up too...they were sooty looking. I'm taking the advice of others about the carbs and am reusing the brass as it looks to be in good condition. The left side slow jet had 4 of the 8 tiny holes occluded with some white chalky-looking substance, the right side did not. Overall I'd consider these carb to be in good shape...it certainly does not look like they sat around with decaying fuel inside.

Removed the existing spark plugs...they were black. Not oily, just solid black like they'd just cleaned a chimney or something. Would anyone like to offer their opinion about whether a properly adjusted bike has plugs like these or whether there is room for improvement?

I had ordered the Keyster carb kits from Retro Bikes, and had to get separate gaskets for my oval float bowls as the kits included the square gaskets. I don't know if the oval gaskets are Keysters, but they are exactly the same size as the originals. I had been warned that the Keyster gaskets tend to be oversize and to expect to have to trim them to avoid interference with the floats, but that's not the case here.

[Spargett]

I had to get the oval gaskets for the carbs myself. I picked mine up from RetroBikes and they've been great.

I had ordered the Keyster carb kits from Retro Bikes, and had to get separate gaskets for my oval float bowls as the kits included the square gaskets. I don't know if the oval gaskets are Keysters, but they are exactly the same size as the originals..

[Loudo]

Got everything back together so I thought I'd see if it'd start. New battery and battery tender, carb overhauls, ground cable, air filters, spark plugs, throttle cable, and fresh oil. Didn't mess with the timing since it seemed to run OK before the re-do except for the broken throttle cable funny business. It was in the shop with fresh gas, so everything was a nice and toasty 68 degrees.

Took it outside, opened the petcock, waited, turned on the ignition, full choke, hit the starter button. Cranks and cranks, no signs of life, not even a hiccup. Nothing. Nada.

Back into the shop, pulled the spark plugs. They smell like gasoline.

It looks like I'll be doing some troubleshooting this weekend with concentration on the electrical side. I'm no expert but I do have a multimeter and some experience with it.

Later in the evening I notice a small pool of fresh oil on the floor beneath the right side of the engine appx. below the kickstarter, but not from the kickstarter. looks like it's coming from the crankcase cover/block seam. The PO had stated there was an oil seal in there needing replacement, so I started taking the cover off. Removed the muffler and footpeg/brake, got stopped by two recalcitrant screws. Getting an impact driver tonight so I can apply a little encouragement.

[Loudo]

There's no sense continuing to find out why I can't get this bad boy to fire if a pool of oil collects below the motor when it's just sitting there, so I continued my efforts to get the right side crankcase cover off. Another trip to Sears netted me the impact driver set and after a few whacks those last two screws succumbed. Pulled off the cover...was a little worried about the spring so I teased it out as I pulled off the cover. Wasn't sure whether or not the kick starter pinion was supposed to be pulled at the same time but it was easing itself off the shaft. I don't like springs. Too many lawnmower and chain saw repairs have caused me to think dark thoughts when I see a large recoil spring. Anyway the pinion came off and the spring made an impressive and alarming SPROING but it's still attached to the cover so it looks like everything will slip back on.

After removing the case cover, a cursory review revealed that the oil seal around the clutch lifter rod is not seated. It is a good 1/4" proud of the recess where it should be seated. I'm assuming this seal out of position means it was doing a damned poor job of preventing oil from migrating from the engine to the ground. The PO had predicted this oil leak was due to the other oil seal in the area, namely the one just rearward which my parts manual states is at the end of the counter shaft. I'll replace the former oil seal since if it likes to float around now there's a good chance it'll not stay put again if I just try to shove it back in.

Gives me a chance to clean everything in there and have a good look at how everything works, if nothing else.

Here's a pic of what I saw just after removing the crankcase cover...the "bad" seal is clearly in the wrong spot and the other seal is dry as a bone.

As usual any suggestions, comments, or pithy remarks on my progress are welcome.

[Spargett]

Congrats on getting crankcase off. I highly reccomend picking up one of the Allen replacement sets of screws for the crankcases that are floating around the internet. Just search "Honda CB77" on eBay and you'll find it among the results. The Phillips head screws aren't very preactical and just strip too easy. Besides, if you ever want to make it show worthy you can always replace the screws with the "correct" type.

That chain sure needs quite the cleaning!! I reccomend the grime minister chain brush. You can find them on Cycle Gear's site, or most bike shops. It does a great job of tearing away all the buildup.

Keep at the bike. Every day you work on it is a day closer to riding.