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Want to keep a Restoration Log? Post it here! You can include photos. Suggested format: One Restoration per Thread; then keep adding your updates to the same thread...
Loudo
honda305.com Member
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Restoration update

Post by Loudo » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:51 pm

After an extended absence, here's a little update on the restoration project of this '63 CB77. It's been just over a year since I purchased the bike in complete but rough condition. This last summer everything was working fine and I did a fair amount of riding, I've put over 500 miles on it. I"ve been slowed down by the 2nd gear shifting problems I've described in the "Transmission" thread, so it's time to tear the bike down again and deal with that. Sort of a shame because it starts and runs very nicely and doesn't leak a drop of oil. Since it will be disassembled I'll take the opportunity to remove the fenders, side covers and other small items and return them to their original silver color instead of the green color some of these items are now. The black paint on the frame and tank is pretty good and I'll leave them alone...I'm not going for a "good as new" restoration as I sort of like the looks of a bike that looks "period." In any event, my main interest is riding this thing as much as I can so it's the mechanical aspect that draws my interest, but I've got to get rid of that green paint.

So...I got the engine out of the frame and the case split last night. The results are in the attached photos.

I have a couple of sets of gears I bought on eBay and I'll replace the worn gear with one of the gears from the purchased sets. I'll also X the gears since I have the case open...I've never liked the stock gearing and would look forward to a closer ratio between 1st and 2nd and 3rd. 4th has always seemed like just an overdrive of 3rd. I'll need to purchase new shift forks. It's hard to gauge the condition of used forks on eBay based on photos, but I may have no choice.

I also want to note for the record that this forum has been an outstanding resource and the great people that frequent it have made this a real fun experience. I really appreciate all the help provided by y'all. I hope others happening across this forum reading about my stumbling and bumbling around can learn stuff and cause their own restoration to go smoother.
Attachments
I found this piece of shrapnel in bottom half of the case.  It is clearly a piece of a gear tooth.  However, I have looked at the gears closely and can't see a chunk missing on any of them.  I'll look harder.  Perhaps it's from a gear somewhere else (?)
I found this piece of shrapnel in bottom half of the case. It is clearly a piece of a gear tooth. However, I have looked at the gears closely and can't see a chunk missing on any of them. I'll look harder. Perhaps it's from a gear somewhere else (?)
You can see here what the problem is...the gear on the mainshaft in which the shift fork rides has been actually worn thin by the fork straining to shove the gear toward the center.  The dogs are likewise quite rounded.
You can see here what the problem is...the gear on the mainshaft in which the shift fork rides has been actually worn thin by the fork straining to shove the gear toward the center. The dogs are likewise quite rounded.
You can see the difference between the gear that's been having the problem and its counterpart gear on the lay shaft.
You can see the difference between the gear that's been having the problem and its counterpart gear on the lay shaft.
Here's the shift fork to the mainshaft...it's very worn on the rubbing surface toward the center of the motor and actually looks burned.  Must have been quite a lot of friction.  Also the fork ends are quite worn.
Here's the shift fork to the mainshaft...it's very worn on the rubbing surface toward the center of the motor and actually looks burned. Must have been quite a lot of friction. Also the fork ends are quite worn.

LOUD MOUSE
honda305.com Member
Posts: 7817
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:23 am
Location: KERRVILLE, TEXAS

Re: Restoration update

Post by LOUD MOUSE » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:01 pm

From the looks of the fork and slider I recommend ya take a really good look (send pics) of the shift drum at the high points and the rollers. ..............lm

Loudo wrote:After an extended absence, here's a little update on the restoration project of this '63 CB77. It's been just over a year since I purchased the bike in complete but rough condition. This last summer everything was working fine and I did a fair amount of riding, I've put over 500 miles on it. I"ve been slowed down by the 2nd gear shifting problems I've described in the "Transmission" thread, so it's time to tear the bike down again and deal with that. Sort of a shame because it starts and runs very nicely and doesn't leak a drop of oil. Since it will be disassembled I'll take the opportunity to remove the fenders, side covers and other small items and return them to their original silver color instead of the green color some of these items are now. The black paint on the frame and tank is pretty good and I'll leave them alone...I'm not going for a "good as new" restoration as I sort of like the looks of a bike that looks "period." In any event, my main interest is riding this thing as much as I can so it's the mechanical aspect that draws my interest, but I've got to get rid of that green paint.

So...I got the engine out of the frame and the case split last night. The results are in the attached photos.

I have a couple of sets of gears I bought on eBay and I'll replace the worn gear with one of the gears from the purchased sets. I'll also X the gears since I have the case open...I've never liked the stock gearing and would look forward to a closer ratio between 1st and 2nd and 3rd. 4th has always seemed like just an overdrive of 3rd. I'll need to purchase new shift forks. It's hard to gauge the condition of used forks on eBay based on photos, but I may have no choice.

I also want to note for the record that this forum has been an outstanding resource and the great people that frequent it have made this a real fun experience. I really appreciate all the help provided by y'all. I hope others happening across this forum reading about my stumbling and bumbling around can learn stuff and cause their own restoration to go smoother.

Loudo
honda305.com Member
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Indeed

Post by Loudo » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:10 pm

Thanks, Ed...I'll do that tonight. It was pretty late when I got finished last night and I didn't have time to disassemble the drum and forks. I'm enjoying finally figuring out for real how these gear changes work.

BTW, I've noted past posts on the topic of shimming and I know that there are thicker or thinner cotters available (or were in the past.) How much play should be present when you grab the gear held in place by the cotter and move it back and forth? Should it be pretty solid or is a little "give" appropriate? I want to do everything right the first time because I don't plan to split the case for awhile if I don't have to.

LOUD MOUSE
honda305.com Member
Posts: 7817
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:23 am
Location: KERRVILLE, TEXAS

Re: Indeed

Post by LOUD MOUSE » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:34 pm

Excellent question.
Ya may want to get in touch will Bill Silver for that.
I make sure all dogs are flat and sharp edges and I make sure the brass bushing in the output shaft isn't warn into the center of the hole.
I also look at the 14mm brass bushing and KS pawl plus the area of the KS shaft where the 1/4 in. bearing are located.
Show pics of all these?. ..................lm
Loudo wrote:Thanks, Ed...I'll do that tonight. It was pretty late when I got finished last night and I didn't have time to disassemble the drum and forks. I'm enjoying finally figuring out for real how these gear changes work.

BTW, I've noted past posts on the topic of shimming and I know that there are thicker or thinner cotters available (or were in the past.) How much play should be present when you grab the gear held in place by the cotter and move it back and forth? Should it be pretty solid or is a little "give" appropriate? I want to do everything right the first time because I don't plan to split the case for awhile if I don't have to.

Loudo
honda305.com Member
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Photos

Post by Loudo » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:04 pm

I removed the shift drum and forks and took some photos. Also some pics of the brass bushing and the output shaft bushing and kick pawl. I don't see anything that looks slightly worn except that sliding gear and one fork. I'm welcoming comments on the photos:
Attachments
Shift fork.jpg
Shift fork .jpg
Shift drum.jpg
Shift_drum.jpg
Shift drum other side.jpg

Loudo
honda305.com Member
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

More photos...

Post by Loudo » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:08 pm

More photos:
Attachments
Shift fork guide pins.jpg
Output shaft bushing.jpg
Naughty gear.jpg
Kick starter components.jpg
Fork rollers.jpg

Loudo
honda305.com Member
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Cont'd

Post by Loudo » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:14 pm

...and even more photos...
Attachments
Here's something interesting:  below the shift drum one can see a pretty long crack in the case.  Surprisingly it hasn't migrated visibly to the outer surface.  Has anyone else experienced such a thing?  I'm wondering how common it is.  The engine being a
Here's something interesting: below the shift drum one can see a pretty long crack in the case. Surprisingly it hasn't migrated visibly to the outer surface. Has anyone else experienced such a thing? I'm wondering how common it is. The engine being a
Bad gear.jpg
Bushing.jpg

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