honda305 Home honda305 Auctions honda305 Gallery honda305 Forum


honda305.com Forum

Login
□ Search
□ FAQ 
□ 
Vintage Honda Owners,
Restorers, Riders and
Admirers

Honda Dream CA77 305 Speedometer Rebuild Walk-Through

paperslammer
honda305.com Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:53 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Honda Dream CA77 305 Speedometer Rebuild Walk-Through

Post by paperslammer » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:41 pm

This has probably been my most ambitious Dream project yet. These were the symptoms:
  • 1) Needle was doing fine as I was accelerating, but as I slowed down the needle stayed indicating I was moving at high speed
    2) As I sped up again, the needle kept moving upward, and almost maxed the speedo out.
    3) The needle would come to rest at 0 after a long time.

Then one day the needle just didn't move at all. Uh-oh I thought, it's time to GET MY HANDS DIRTY.

First, unscrew this bolt underneath your headlamp
Image

You'll see a jumble of wires. I balanced my headlight on the front fender. It's probably best to disconnect it so it doesn't fall and break. Take out the small lightbulbs. You have to push them in and turn to get them out.
Image

Now you can unscrew the speedometer cable from the speedo housing and the bracket holding the speedo to the headlight bucket.
Image

All done!
Image

Now the whole unit pops out of the top. There will probably be white crumbly stuff that cracks away. It is some sealant that we'll replace.
Image
Image

Now the MOST ANNOYING PART. You have to bend the bezel up with meticulous carefulness. I used a small flat head to continually pry around the edges. This probably to me upwards of 6 HOURS because I was being so careful.
Image
Image

After a very long time, I got it apart! Here is the bezel, glass face, and inner bezel separated from the speedo:
Image

Now to get the inner assembly out, turn the speedo over and unscrew these fools:
Image

Tada! Speed inner assembly is out. I had a lot of rust. My next step was to soak it in brakleen. This would dissolve any oils inside of the rotating cap/cup. Looking back, I probably didn't have to do this because mine was BONE DRY. I put nuts in the cup to take up space so I didn't have to use as much brakleen.
Image
Image

After cleaning:
Image

And Oh $H!T The brakleen ate the paint / numbers off of my face plate. Word of caution: take off the plate before you soak it! Oh well, you live an learn.
Image

These screws take off the face plate
Image

You'll also have to get the needle off. I used a spoon. Carefully pry up on each side, working your way around. It will pop off you'll swear that you broke it. You didn't.
Image
Image
Image

So what I did to remedy my crappy faceplate was order a sticker from stickers@reproductiondecals.com. You have to e-mail them and ask them because it's a secret menu item, like animal style (any californians?). It was $16. The down side is that there is no hole for the high beam indicator.
Here's pictures of my procedure. I bought black spray paint.
Image
Image
Image
Image

The sticker does a great job of sticking to the paint! But I didn't prime the metal, so the paint came right off (mess up #2!)! I just epoxied it on and it was fine. Make sure you prime the metal plate. Now onto the speedo mechanisms. Something wasn't allowing these gears to turn.

I wanted to clean / sand all the rust off of the gears, so I unscrewed these screws:
Image
Image

Now I could clean these gears. But still the numbers wouldn't turn. Whatever it was it even snapped a tooth off of my numbers!
Image

It turns out that the numbers had locked up for some reason. So, thanks to the members here I was sent another number assembly. For those who are curious, here are some pictures of the core components of the odometer.
Image

To get the odometer out, you need to pull out a brass clip which rides the shaft going through the odometer. Then with the greater amount of play you've created by taking out this clip you can move this brass bearing out of its hole and closer to the odometer. Then you can finagle the odometer out.
Image
Image

Once my numbers were restored, I put the parts back together and then oiled it up with this clipper oil on all the moving parts. You should use VERY LIGHT OIL. All others will be too viscous.
Image
Image

After this I reassembled some of it and calibrated my speedo. I also made a mini-ghetto gasket out of an old bike tire to go in between the bucket and the speedo so it wouldn't vibrate a lot.
Image
Image
Image
Image

White Russian break
Image
Back at it
Image
Image
Test set up!
Image

What I found was that my needle was moving way high again! This meant there was too much oil in the place where the inverted cup rotates in the other cup. Circled below
Image

I snuck some tissue paper in between the two cups and soaked up all the oil I could. I pretty much got all out all the oil that was possible, and then the calibration was correct when comparing my GPS to my needle. You can also rotate the needle so that 0 starts lower / higher than 0 on the face. This might help with the calibration as well.

Now to begin putting it all back together. I first got some gasket epoxy (~$6-$8) and rubber cement from ace hardware. I cut another gasket from the bike inner tube, and used the contact cement to mate it with the inner bezel. The trick here is that you should not see the rubber gasket when you place the inner bezel back into the outer bezel. It takes some trimming, but it is worth it.
Then I placed the glass on top of this.
Image
Image
Image
Image

Now put a bead of the silicone around the glass, gasket, and inner bezel.
Image

Before moving on, I wanted to fix up my high-beam indicator. I cut a hole in the sticker.
Image

The brakleen has also messed up the little red plastic piece that the light shined through. So I bought some thing red plastic, cut it up, epoxied it together, and put it on the back of the face plate. If anyone needs any of this stuff, I've got a lot left.
Image
Image
Image
Image

After this was done, I put a lot of the gasket sealant in the outer bezel. Then you just have to press it back on and watch all the goop spill out. Don't worry, you can clean it off using a razor blade, windex. Just don't scratch the glass!
Image
Image

Mine got hard to press on really far, so I didn't get to crimp down the bezel as much as it originally was. I also didn't put any liquid gasket type material around the speedo mount on the Dream, because I wanted to be done. I just kept the rubber gasket I had for calibrating the speedo.

Turns out because the numbers weren't turning, it snapped the inner speedo cable, so I had to but a new one from OhioCycle. I got it, put it in the outer casing, reattached the speedo cable to the worm gear on the front tires, and put the speedo back together
Image
Image

And it works! The only thing I have noticed is that the backlighting from one of the lights might not be able to get through one of the sides. Not sure what is blocking it...maybe some silicone or something. So that is my adventure. Here are some threads that helped me get through this process. Good luck if you try it yourself!

CL Speedometer Rebuild
Speedometer reads twice as fast
Speedometer needle removal
Speedo Calibration
Speedo pegged and died
Last edited by paperslammer on Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:37 pm, edited 6 times in total.
'64 CA77 305 Dream

Eljeef
honda305.com Member
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:38 am
Location: Windsor, Ontario

Post by Eljeef » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:49 pm

I love your in-depth articles. This will help me out with my own speedo repair. Thanks. Jeff H.
1964-C77 305 Dream
2002 BMW R1150GS

mike1969
honda305.com Member
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:53 pm
Location: w.pa.

speedometer

Post by mike1969 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:23 pm

I found a great tool to un-crimp speedometer chrome. I use a pair of ignition pliers.
They are like very small channelock pliers. You can catch the upper curve of the pliers under the lip and gently pry up a little at a time and have it apart in less the a half hour.

User avatar
G-Man
honda305.com Member
Posts: 5678
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Post by G-Man » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:35 am

Paperslammer

Fantastic piece of work there. Thankyou! I believe that there should be no oil between the two cups at all. The 'drive' here is produced by magnetic drag between the two cups so you got a much higher reading by adding oil and creating more drag.

I think that your 'degreasing tank' stage is unnecessary and created more problems than it solved. I clean each bearing surface separately with solvent and then re-lube.

It is important to lube the input shaft as this is a problem area where steel shaft meets aluminum body. Corrosion causes this to seize up and is the usual cause of the crazy needle syndrome. Did you find that the odometer bearings had seized? I'm wondering what caused that tooth to break.

Brilliant stuff though!

G
'60 C77 '60 C72 '62 C72 Dream '63 CL72
'61 CB72 '64 CB77 '65 CB160
'66 Matchless 350 '67 CL77
'67 S90 '77 CB400F

paperslammer
honda305.com Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:53 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Post by paperslammer » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:18 am

G-Man wrote:Paperslammer

Fantastic piece of work there. Thankyou! I believe that there should be no oil between the two cups at all. The 'drive' here is produced by magnetic drag between the two cups so you got a much higher reading by adding oil and creating more drag.
Ah OK. Then that makes sense that it worked best when I soaked all the oil out.
G-Man wrote: I think that your 'degreasing tank' stage is unnecessary and created more problems than it solved. I clean each bearing surface separately with solvent and then re-lube.

It is important to lube the input shaft as this is a problem area where steel shaft meets aluminum body. Corrosion causes this to seize up and is the usual cause of the crazy needle syndrome. Did you find that the odometer bearings had seized? I'm wondering what caused that tooth to break.
Input shaft into the speedometer, correct? Also, yes, the odometer bearing had seized. That's what snapped the tooth and is what (I think) snapped the inner speedo cable.
'64 CA77 305 Dream

User avatar
G-Man
honda305.com Member
Posts: 5678
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Post by G-Man » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:06 am

Yes - the shaft that the speedo cable goes into. It should spin easily when you twiddle with a small screwdriver.

G
'60 C77 '60 C72 '62 C72 Dream '63 CL72
'61 CB72 '64 CB77 '65 CB160
'66 Matchless 350 '67 CL77
'67 S90 '77 CB400F

User avatar
brewsky
honda305.com Member
Posts: 1816
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:21 am
Location: Princeton, WV

Post by brewsky » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:48 am

Excellent work, Slamer!

After looking at your pics, it is evident there was more than one version of the internals.
My odo wheel is a different design at the gear end, and I don't recall any thick aluminum interior frame parts either, mine are all stamped metal.

Keep up the good work!
66 dream, 78 cb750k, 02fz1, 09 wing

Post Reply




 

CB-77 | CYP-77 | Road Test | Riding Log | Literature | Zen | Marketplace | VJ Survey | Links | Home