Ball Bearing size for Clutch Lifter Assembly

G-Man · Post by **G-Man** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:27 am

It will be an authentic frame. Just a Honda replacement part supplied and probably stamped by a dealer.

Thinking about the ¼ ball in the lifter. It is probably that the smaller ball drops downward in the 10mm cavity and gives an off-centre push to the rod end. Some of the "push" might then become friction as the ball is pushed against the wall of that part.

G

LOUD MOUSE · Post by **LOUD MOUSE** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:34 am

djbrown wrote:
LOUD MOUSE wrote:Good on ya.
Great pics.
The engine is no doubt HONDA however I suspect the frame is a replacement.
Why.
Well HONDA painted all frames then stamped the numbers through the paint.
From what I see there is bare metal at the number location. (no sign of paint around the numbers which don't show any sanding after they were stamped.
Not saying I can't be wrong on this but that is what I see..................................lm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The frame is for sure a HONDA issue.
Many times bikes were crashed and the frame damaged enough that best way to get bike back on the road was to purchase a new frame.
The one you have is how it came and the numbers were stamped
when the frame was sold.
Naturally the existing numbers were available and if used didn't require a trip the the DMV.
Back in 1975 I purchased a HONDA ODYSSEY (car) and when the dealer did the required engine swap (349cc to 329cc) they didn't install the harmonic balancer correctly.
At the end of a one hour race at Riverside Raceway the engine had fractured the frame at several places and it was about to drag the ground.
Honda replaced the frame but I had to go to the DMV and have a California I.D. number plate installed. .................lm

LM - Bummer, I hope you're not right about the frame but here's what I see on my CB77.
- Left side of the head tube - You are correct, the frame is bare metal where the frame number is stamped. There is no residual black paint, not even down in the numbers.
- Right side of head tube - Matching flat area on the right side of the head-tube is painted but has no numbers.
- My CB77 did not come with a title just the sales receipt for my sale and the receipt from the previous sale. The gentleman I purchased from had the bike only a few months.He purchased the bike from a guy in Boulevard, CA (east of San Diego on the border with Mexico). I think he said the guy was a pig farmer, Vietnam Vet and an HD collector. The Vietnam Vet and his father had restored the bike back in 1985 with the intention that his father would ride it. Right around the time they were completing the project the father had a heart attack, he survived but decided it was best not to ride motorcycles anymore, so the bike sat in his garage until he passed away in 2003. The son then retrieved the bike and brought it to his own garage where it sat until Late 2012 when he sold it. I heard the Vietnam Vet and his father had purchased the bike from someone in Nevada and that is as far as I can go back.

How can I determine if my frame is an authentic Honda or not? I searched for reproduction CB77 frames and did not find anything. Any help would be appreciated.

djbrown · Post by **djbrown** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:54 am

G-man, LM, 48lesco and others - All comments noted with thanks. You guys are what makes this so fun.

I am going to continue to try and confirm the frame as either original or replacement so any knowledge or help that can be provided will be appreciated. I don't mind taking the bike somewhere and having it looked at and authenticated (or not). Do you guys know of someone in Southern Cal who could do this? Whose word would you guys trust? I would travel as far as Bill Silver but LA (maybe Charlie's Place?) would be much closer to me.

The result does't matter to me, one way or the other I am going to enjoy the bike.

With that said if the conclusion is that it's not an original matching numbers bike then I have a custom project sitting right here. I love original CB77's and they are my father's favorite motorcycle of all time but I have seen some absolutely stunning specials done from these. In reality it does not take much on a CB77 to make a very cool custom and the parts exist to bump them to a 350 and a 5 speed box. Not sure if i would do that, the 5 speed boxes are pretty expensive, but the possibility exists.

If it is authentic then I think I head in the direction of redoing the top end and sealing up the motor the best that I can and sticking to original (well except for the ball bearing in the clutch lifter assembly - that's for you 48lesco... Ha ha).

LOUD MOUSE · Post by **LOUD MOUSE** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:22 am

For what it's worth (your time!) you have the best qualified experts for the CB72/77 HONDA'S right here on this forum.
And we are all over the world with a hobby that's dear to us for sure.
I'll share another of my happenings with the HONDA'S
I moved from CAL. to TEXAS in 1993 and brought several SH and Scramblers
I had a Blue 1963 SH that was registered as a 1964
I requested to have the new title changed to 1963 and showed the lady several items of proof for the frame numbers of 1963/64.
I was informed that AUSTIN (state capital where the know it all/have it all's live) would have the correct information to proof the numbers.
Nice lady but I stated "I don't think so".
Austin informed her they would call HONDA as they didn't have any numbers to year information.
I smiled.
Now this is the way I was able to have the year changed and HONDA did it.
AUSTIN called and I had to answer 3 questions.
1. What type handle bars? Reply Flat GOOD!
2. What color are the parts that have the front axle at the front wheel? BLUE like the bike. GOOD.
3. At the headlight area there is a small round light thing. What color is it? RED for sure.GOOD, GOOD, GOOD
I got the title changed to 1963 with the answers to those 3 questions from "HONDA".
Need you go any farther? ....................lm

djbrown wrote:G-man, LM, 48lesco and others - All comments noted with thanks. You guys are what makes this so fun.

I am going to continue to try and confirm the frame as either original or replacement so any knowledge or help that can be provided will be appreciated. I don't mind taking the bike somewhere and having it looked at and authenticated (or not). Do you guys know of someone in Southern Cal who could do this? Whose word would you guys trust? I would travel as far as Bill Silver but LA (maybe Charlie's Place?) would be much closer to me.

The result does't matter to me, one way or the other I am going to enjoy the bike.

With that said if the conclusion is that it's not an original matching numbers bike then I have a custom project sitting right here. I love original CB77's and they are my father's favorite motorcycle of all time but I have seen some absolutely stunning specials done from these. In reality it does not take much on a CB77 to make a very cool custom and the parts exist to bump them to a 350 and a 5 speed box. Not sure if i would do that, the 5 speed boxes are pretty expensive, but the possibility exists.

If it is authentic then I think I head in the direction of redoing the top end and sealing up the motor the best that I can and sticking to original (well except for the ball bearing in the clutch lifter assembly - that's for you 48lesco... Ha ha).

djbrown · Post by **djbrown** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:26 am

LOUD MOUSE wrote:For what it's worth (your time!) you have the best qualified experts for the CB72/77 HONDA'S right here on this forum.
And we are all over the world with a hobby that's dear to us for sure.
I'll share another of my happenings with the HONDA'S
I moved from CAL. to TEXAS in 1993 and brought several SH and Scramblers
I had a Blue 1963 SH that was registered as a 1964
I requested to have the new title changed to 1963 and showed the lady several items of proof for the frame numbers of 1963/64.
I was informed that AUSTIN (state capital where the know it all/have it all's live) would have the correct information to proof the numbers.
Nice lady but I stated "I don't think so".
Austin informed her they would call HONDA as they didn't have any numbers to year information.
I smiled.
Now this is the way I was able to have the year changed and HONDA did it.
AUSTIN called and I had to answer 3 questions.
1. What type handle bars? Reply Flat GOOD!
2. What color are the parts that have the front axle at the front wheel? BLUE like the bike. GOOD.
3. At the headlight area there is a small round light thing. What color is it? RED for sure.GOOD, GOOD, GOOD
I got the title changed to 1963 with the answers to those 3 questions from "HONDA".
Need you go any farther? ....................lm

LM - You have it exactly correct. I don't care what the State of California thinks, I care what this forum thinks. If you guys believe it to be an original frame, then that's what it is. So when are you coming to Santa Barbara? I'll buy lunch (this is not a joke, I will buy lunch).

Now that you mention it, the registration/title I received from the state is a little strange. It is titled as a 1965 Super Hawk but says it was first sold in 2013. As far as they are concerned the bike was never titled until I bought it. I will not go through the trouble to fix that (if it can be fixed) unless you guys are on board.

I'm not selling the bike, so whatever it is...it is. But I enjoy a solving a mystery. And if you all believe it to be authentic then I will concentrate on very original, less restoration is more approach.

djbrown · Post by **djbrown** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:04 am

Hi all,

So Loud Mouth set me straight last night, he's the man. The frame is a replacement from Honda that was stamped at the dealership. Most likely the frame was stamped in order to create the least problem with whatever DMV the owner was dealing with and matching the engine probably helped. Oh well, easy come... easy go. Anyway, thanks for the help on the ball bearing and clutch adjustment, it is working much better now properly adjusted with the standard ball 5/16" (8mm) ball bearing. It still is a harder pull than my CL450 but I am upgrading the clutch with a LM refined 66/67 unit. I'm still going to experiment with the 10mm ball in a couple of weeks, just to try it out. I know it flies in the face of reason, if a 10mm ball is better why would Honda not have used it to begin with? So I am prepared for it not to work, hopefully curiosity does not kill this cat.

David

cknight · Post by **cknight** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:47 pm

Don't confuse a #10 ball bearing (5/16") with a 10mm ball bearing. The 5/16" is correct for the clutch lifter. Regards, Chase