rear brake stopper/swingarm connection

Wilf · Post by **Wilf** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:17 pm

My 1963 CB77 swingarm has two welded tabs coming down on the left side which I assume accept the rear brake panel stopper. When I took this bike apart, the stopper was bolted somewhere else, I can't recall where (but I know it wasn't right), and now that I'm checking my re-assembly, I'm wondering if I have made a mistake.

When I put the rear wheel back on the bike, I placed the front eye of the stopper arm in between the two welded tabs on the swingarm. It was then that I noticed the bolt (a special bolt) appeared to be too long for the intended job.

I'm looking at the Rear Fork-Rear Fender parts fiche for General Export at cmsnl.com where the special bolt is #20 and the rear brake stopper arm is #16.

The bolt that I have is indeed special--a round head, with a portion ground flat (not a hex head at all), it has a 10 mm diameter shank 20 mm long, and then an 8 mm threaded section about 10 mm long with a hole at the end to accept a cotter pin.

I've been puzzling over this for a good portion of the afternoon and then it dawned on me that maybe the stopper arm does NOT go in between the two welded tabs. Maybe the bolt goes through those tabs and then through the stopper arm and on to the washers, nut and cotter pin.

I also see in cmsnl's fiche that the bolt attaching the rear end of the stopper arm to the brake panel appears to have its head facing outward, with the washers, nut and cotter pin on the inside, toward the hub. As it stands, mine are reversed, the washers, nut and cotter pin being on the outside.

I would appreciate any help in trying to sort this out, and I apologize for not being able to attach any photos to aid in my description. I think the photo upload system is still non-functional--a sad parallel to the status of my Super Hawk.

Wilf

dkwilfert · Post by **dkwilfert** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:29 am

Wilf; Absolutely the stopper arm goes BETWEEN the mount ears on the fork. The lock washer and nut should take up most all of the rest of the bolt length, but if they don't, add some washers as needed. I would even suggest adding washers to reduce any excessive slack between the ears, but the rod needs to freely pivit at both ends. And yes, the parts photo shows the wrong direction for the bolts on this rod. The lower bolt head fits into a cutout on the back side of the brake hub plate's arm, and I put the top bolt facing out too so the nut is easier to access for tightening and for securing a pin through the hole. Come to think of it (can't remember), the two ears on the fork might have had different size holes so the mount bolt could only go one way too, and the shoulder of the mount bolt rested on the inside of one ear so by tightening the nut it did not sqeeze the two ears together. Best I can do right now; recent injury has me waiting for surgery so I can't go pull things apart on the bike.

davomoto · Post by **davomoto** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:26 pm

Wilf, the bolt you describe is for the rear brake panel to stopper arm. The correct bolt for the front mount has a 17mm head,is collared, and the arm goes in between the two tabs. On the hub end, the lock washer goes on first, and fits over the collared part of the bolt, then flat washer, nut, cotter pin.

davomoto

Wilf · Post by **Wilf** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:17 pm

Thank-you dkwilfert and davomoto for your replies.
dkwilfert...on the swingarm connection I have installed the bolt with the head to the inside and no washer between the head and the mounting ear. On the outer side I used an 8 mm washer, lockwasher and castellated nut with cotter pin (as per the fiche).

I understand the need for the brake stopper arm to pivot at both connections. That is why the forward bolt has a 10 mm diameter shoulder to bear against the 8 mm washer etc. in order to avoid pinching the arm between the two ears on the swingarm. The curious thing is that I have 1/2" of the 10 mm bolt shoulder (or collar) showing between the mounting ear and the 8 mm plain washer.

That extra half inch just doesn't seem correct. Why would Honda use a bolt that is 1/2" too long? Shimming with washers between the bolt head and mounting ear doesn't sound like a Honda solution, and it doesn't do any good anyway because the "fastening" occurs on the 8 mm threaded portion of the bolt.

As per usual, answers pose more questions. Thanks again for your help, and I hope your wait for surgery will be short.

davomoto...I'm still confused, but that's not unusual for me. By my reckoning the bolt on the hub end of the brake stopper arm is a hex head which fits into the recess on the brake plate, with the threads, washers, nut and cotter pin to the outside of the hub. The bolt I am describing doesn't have a hex head--its head is round except for a portion that has been ground away, making it look more like a 'c'. It can't fit into the brake panel recess.

Curiously enough, I looked at the cmsnl fiche for the US Model and I see that the front and rear bolts for the stopper arm have the same number! I don't know what's happening now, so I'll have supper and a snooze and see if that will help my understanding of this.

My thanks to both of you for your replies.

davomoto · Post by **davomoto** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:50 pm

Sorry for the confusion! Some rear brake panels use the hex head bolt, fits in recess, other use the bolt with the "C" head, not recessed. The bolt you are trying to use on the front is not correct, the shoulder is too long for that application.

davomoto

Wilf · Post by **Wilf** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:20 am

Thanks davo...I'm no longer confused about the connection at the hub. I still don't know why the c-head bolt for the connection to the swingarm would be 1/2" too long on the shoulder. It may not belong on a CB77 (I've found other things--mystery gifts from previous owners-- on this bike that were not quite right).

Wilf

Bob750 · Post by **Bob750** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:58 am

I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm having my own issue with this sub-assembly.

On our early '64 Dream 305, we have the rear brake panel with the recessed hex on the inside, but the shouldered bolt that would go there can't clear the wheel hub. This bike had two similar bolts that only differed in length. I used the short one at the swingarm end and when I tried to install the panel end bolt, it wouldn't clear the wheel hub. It's possible that the shorter one would work at the panel, but the longer one wouldn't work properly at the swingarm. I guess I could remove the short one and test it at the panel, but my cotter pin is so nicely secured... :-/

Since I can't be sure the bolts in question that came on this bike are correct, can anyone say which part number is for the shorter one or the longer one?

I'm pretty sure the long bolt will work on the panel if I remove the axle bolt, drop the spacer away, pull the brake panel out, put the bolt in from the back, and put it all back together. I guess that's what I'll try tomorrow. Seems like a strange requirement to put that bolt in... Any other thoughts?